Can I claim Job seekers allowance following VR at 55 if I defer taking my pension?

calcotti

Eldi_Dos said:

You would be entitled to and qualify for JSA whether you are taking your pension income or not.

As already explained, with a link to the relevant regulation, if there is pension income in excess of £50/week the amount of JSA is reduced. There would be no JSA payable if the pension is £124.70/week (£6,484.40/annum) or more. 

poppy12345

Eldi_Dos said:

You would be entitled to and qualify for JSA whether you are taking your pension income or not.

Although as has been advised there will be reduction in the JSA if any pension taken is more than £50 per week.

Terron

I was made redundant at the age of 54. I had quite a lot of savings partly due to an inheritance, and partly due to my knowing the job wasn't going to last forever. I claimed contributory JSA of ~£75pw and had to go into the Job Centre every two weeks. I had worked in IT all my life and there was very little chance of my getting a job in the same area.

I could have lived off my savings until I was 60 and my two DB pensions were due (paying about 12k between them with limited indexation). I also had £300k in a DC pension. I could have survived on that and eventually the state pension.

That didn't feel right so instead I decided to go into BTL. That counted as setting up my own business so I was put on a course for people doing that, which counted as my seeking work, though I was also getting advice from a builder and letting agent and looking at properties, then doing them up. Before the JSA period ran out I was transferred to NEA (New Enterprise Allowance) - £66pw for 3 months then £33pw for another three. Before it dropped I had let two properties for a net of ~£900pm (bought for cash as I could not get a mortgage having no job).

NedS

Terron said:

That didn't feel right so instead I decided to go into BTL. That counted as setting up my own business so I was put on a course for people doing that, which counted as my seeking work, though I was also getting advice from a builder and letting agent and looking at properties, then doing them up. Before the JSA period ran out I was transferred to NEA (New Enterprise Allowance) - £66pw for 3 months then £33pw for another three. Before it dropped I had let two properties for a net of ~£900pm (bought for cash as I could not get a mortgage having no job).

They were wrong to put you on the NEA scheme as BTL is not considered gainful self employment so technically you were not eligible for the scheme. But it's a great scheme for those eligible

Terron

NedS said:

Terron said:

That didn't feel right so instead I decided to go into BTL. That counted as setting up my own business so I was put on a course for people doing that, which counted as my seeking work, though I was also getting advice from a builder and letting agent and looking at properties, then doing them up. Before the JSA period ran out I was transferred to NEA (New Enterprise Allowance) - £66pw for 3 months then £33pw for another three. Before it dropped I had let two properties for a net of ~£900pm (bought for cash as I could not get a mortgage having no job).

They were wrong to put you on the NEA scheme as BTL is not considered gainful self employment so technically you were not eligible for the scheme. But it's a great scheme for those eligible

You are wrong. I was eligible. BTL can be considered gainful self employment provided you are not just dabbling. It is true that the test in SSCBA 1992 is not the clearest piece of legislation, but see NIM74250 for an opinion by HMRC on whether a property business can comply. Since it was going to be my main income I was clearly not dabbling. (About 4 months after NEA ended I had bought my third property and was making £1500pm. The three properties cost me £260k.) This year I paid voluntary class 2 contributions to maximimize my state pension as NIM74250 said I could.

huckster

Re BTL self employment issue, must surely be each case on its own merits. Have seen examples where someone has 3 let properties, but after paying loans, Insurance, putting money aside for repairs etc, there is only modest (below full time national min wage) income per month.

 

NedS

Terron said:

NedS said:

Terron said:

That didn't feel right so instead I decided to go into BTL. That counted as setting up my own business so I was put on a course for people doing that, which counted as my seeking work, though I was also getting advice from a builder and letting agent and looking at properties, then doing them up. Before the JSA period ran out I was transferred to NEA (New Enterprise Allowance) - £66pw for 3 months then £33pw for another three. Before it dropped I had let two properties for a net of ~£900pm (bought for cash as I could not get a mortgage having no job).

They were wrong to put you on the NEA scheme as BTL is not considered gainful self employment so technically you were not eligible for the scheme. But it's a great scheme for those eligible

You are wrong. I was eligible. BTL can be considered gainful self employment provided you are not just dabbling. It is true that the test in SSCBA 1992 is not the clearest piece of legislation, but see NIM74250 for an opinion by HMRC on whether a property business can comply. Since it was going to be my main income I was clearly not dabbling. (About 4 months after NEA ended I had bought my third property and was making £1500pm. The three properties cost me £260k.) This year I paid voluntary class 2 contributions to maximimize my state pension as NIM74250 said I could.

My understanding is that purely being a landlord is not classified as carrying on a trade or profession, so for the purposes of HMRC and UC is not considered to be gainfully self employed (see NIM23800 below). When you report rental income on a tax return, it is not reported under self employed earnings, but rather under rental income. The "dabble" test in NIM74250 relates to "work" you are doing, not the income you are gaining from it. I grant that the more properties you have, the more chance you may actually be doing some "work" relating to those properties. What work is it that you actually do (don't say I'm a landlord) and how many hours per week do you spend doing it?

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/national-insurance-manual/nim23800

Malthusian

NIM23800 says that BTL could qualify as gainful self-employment if the following applies:

For example, ownership of multiple properties, actively looking to acquire further properties to let, and the letting of property being the property owner’s main occupation could be pointers towards there being a business for NICs purposes.

For someone who has been made redundant and is looking at getting into BTL, to the extent of "getting advice from a builder and letting agent and looking at properties, then doing them up", the first doesn't apply but the latter two do. And two out of three ain't bad. Especially as we're talking about eligibility for New Enterprise Allowance rather than liability to Class 2 NI contributions, and if the first point applied you would be ineligible (if you already have a BTL portfolio you can't be setting a new one up) .

So I am not surprised the DWP concluded the OP was eligible for NEA.

Even if that wasn't enough to make you eligible for NEA, you would become eligible if you intended to provide laundry services to your tenants or other services not automatically associated with being a landlord. You wouldn't actually need to provide laundry services, only have the intention to. Once the BTLs were up and running the NEA would cease and it would be no concern of the DWPs whether you were doing the tenants' ironing or not.

itsmeagain

So, for those people who thought it was a lot of effort, having to jump through hoops etc to get JSA - I've hardly had to lift a finger.

I had a CV that I updated, explained that I'm only looking to work for a short period, explained that I have frozen shoulder and can't carry much / drive far, poor social skills etc (virtually unemployable). I've had to check-in a couple of times but that's about it!

I'll take my pension in Jan when my JSA ends - about time I got something after paying tax & NI for 39 years!

Scrounger

itsmeagain said:

So, for those people who thought it was a lot of effort, having to jump through hoops etc to get JSA - I've hardly had to lift a finger.

I'll take my pension in Jan when my JSA ends - about time I got something after paying tax & NI for 39 years!

You could also consider claiming JSA 'credits only' to bag your outstanding NI year (worth about £800).  This would then qualify you for the full state pension at 67. 

Use form JSANC1 (available from the jobcentre).

Sorry for the late response.


Scrounger