Unable to transfer my DB pension - can anyone help?

Dale72

random129 said:

Do you know of any IFA's who would allow someone to "grease their palms" nowadays? I would gladly pay double their fees from my transferred funds if they guaranteed to complete the transfer for me into a fund of my choosing regardless of whether their advice was to transfer or not.

I'm sure there are some out there, although probably best to look in your local area, as they are unlikely to want to conduct business over the phone.

Albermarle

Dale72 said:

random129 said:

Do you know of any IFA's who would allow someone to "grease their palms" nowadays? I would gladly pay double their fees from my transferred funds if they guaranteed to complete the transfer for me into a fund of my choosing regardless of whether their advice was to transfer or not.

I'm sure there are some out there, although probably best to look in your local area, as they are unlikely to want to conduct business over the phone.

More likely in a back alley with used notes in a brown paper bag !

HappyHarry

random129 said:

enthusiasticsaver said:

Personally I would accept it and leave it as it stands. That is what I did when I explored transferring my DB pension. The CETV was not particularly appealing though and the costs for transferring high. Is there a particular reason why you feel transferring would be better for you?

The main reasons I want to transfer are...

1) I am in very poor health and although I have not been given a terminal diagnosis I doubt I will live to an age that would mean leaving the pension where it is would be financially beneficial.

2) I want to transfer and take 25% tax free immediately to clear outstanding debts so I could then use the monthly money I currently need to pay my debts to spend on alternative treatments, such as acupuncture, to help ease my health symptoms. I also need urgent repairs to my home.

3) I am widowed with no dependents so if I die my pension fund will die with me. I want to be able to leave any funds that are left when I die to some of my relatives.

Malthusian said:

I cannot afford to take Independent Financial Advice again because of the change in regulations in October 2020 requiring fees to be paid even if the advice is not to transfer. I could only afford to pay the fees from my pension fund if it is transferred. I have received a few quotes and the cheapest is £4,500. How can any average person afford that kind of money for advice unless they can use their pension fund to pay for it?

Transferring out of a DB scheme is extremely high risk and unsuitable for the vast majority of people. The minority for whom it is suitable would typically have substantial other assets and sources of income to cover their income needs in retirement without the DB scheme. And someone like that can probably afford £4,500 out of their own pocket.

I fully understand the risks involved but feel in my circumstances the risks are well worth taking if, amongst other things, it gives me a better quality of life now before my health deteriorates further and also gives me peace of mind that all my debts have been paid before I die. I genuinely believe I belong to the minority of people who would benefit from transferring but even if I am wrong I am supposed to have the right to transfer provided I take advice first. As far as I am aware I do not legally have to follow that advice so should surely still be allowed to transfer.

Malthusian said:

Have you asked the original adviser what they would charge for giving advice again? They might offer a lower fee than other advisers in view of the fact they wouldn't have to "reinvent the wheel" so much.

I haven't, mainly because I think they were glad to see the back of me last year because of the time they wasted waiting for the Administrators to reply to their requests for the information they needed. I doubt they would want to take on my case again.

It all seems so wrong. If I have a statutory right to transfer my pension under the 2015 ACT, I don't understand how firms can prevent me from exercising that right.

I also don't understand how a receiving company could possibly be sued at a later date for accepting an insistent client. It just doesn't make sense. If I am told quite clearly it is not in my best interests to transfer but decide to do it anyway then surely it would be impossible for me to sue someone if I lose out by going against their advice? What am I missing?

Thanks again to everyone for your input. It's really appreciated.

Your Point (1) and to a certain extent your Point (2) above can be good justification for recommending a transfer.  However, your IFA recommended that you not transfer and instead retain your DB pension. What were the reasons the IFA gave for this?

Dale72

Albermarle said:

More likely in a back alley with used notes in a brown paper bag !

As long as its an FCA registered back alley, then job done!

random129

HappyHarry said:

random129 said:

enthusiasticsaver said:

Personally I would accept it and leave it as it stands. That is what I did when I explored transferring my DB pension. The CETV was not particularly appealing though and the costs for transferring high. Is there a particular reason why you feel transferring would be better for you?

The main reasons I want to transfer are...

1) I am in very poor health and although I have not been given a terminal diagnosis I doubt I will live to an age that would mean leaving the pension where it is would be financially beneficial.

2) I want to transfer and take 25% tax free immediately to clear outstanding debts so I could then use the monthly money I currently need to pay my debts to spend on alternative treatments, such as acupuncture, to help ease my health symptoms. I also need urgent repairs to my home.

Your Point (1) and to a certain extent your Point (2) above can be good justification for recommending a transfer.  However, your IFA recommended that you not transfer and instead retain your DB pension. What were the reasons the IFA gave for this?

Their reasons were very vague and I got the impression they thought my case was more hassle than it was worth because they could never get the administrators of my pension to answer the phone or reply to their emails requesting further information, They waited over two months and still did not get a response so I suspect they simply did not want to continue and made a decision without waiting any longer for a reply.

Now I cannot seek advice from another IFA because the new regulations mean I would have to fork out in the region of £5,000 for the advice with no guarantee I could ultimately transfer.

HappyHarry

random129 said:

HappyHarry said:

random129 said:

enthusiasticsaver said:

Personally I would accept it and leave it as it stands. That is what I did when I explored transferring my DB pension. The CETV was not particularly appealing though and the costs for transferring high. Is there a particular reason why you feel transferring would be better for you?

The main reasons I want to transfer are...

1) I am in very poor health and although I have not been given a terminal diagnosis I doubt I will live to an age that would mean leaving the pension where it is would be financially beneficial.

2) I want to transfer and take 25% tax free immediately to clear outstanding debts so I could then use the monthly money I currently need to pay my debts to spend on alternative treatments, such as acupuncture, to help ease my health symptoms. I also need urgent repairs to my home.

Your Point (1) and to a certain extent your Point (2) above can be good justification for recommending a transfer.  However, your IFA recommended that you not transfer and instead retain your DB pension. What were the reasons the IFA gave for this?

Their reasons were very vague and I got the impression they thought my case was more hassle than it was worth because they could never get the administrators of my pension to answer the phone or reply to their emails requesting further information, They waited over two months and still did not get a response so I suspect they simply did not want to continue and made a decision without waiting any longer for a reply.

Now I cannot seek advice from another IFA because the new regulations mean I would have to fork out in the region of £5,000 for the advice with no guarantee I could ultimately transfer.

Understood, but the IFA must have provided their reasons in writing. Especially since they signed the declaration.

You haven't said how much the transfer value was. Is there any chance it may fall below the £30,000 threshold if long term interest rates start to rise?

xylophone

Are you so unwell that you are unable to work?

If so, is there a chance of an immediate pension on grounds of ill health?

Or  if not but aged over 55, are you able to access the DB pension with actuarial reduction?

Malthusian

Relatives would only benefit if I was ultimately allowed to transfer. If an IFA's advice was not to transfer and nobody would accept me as an insistent client then my pension will die with me and nobody will benefit.

As it stands there are two avenues for insistent clients:

• open a stakeholder pension and exercise the legal requirement that stakeholder pensions must accept a transfer from any registered pension scheme
  
• open your own SSAS

If you feel that both are too much of a risk and/or too expensive I entirely understand where you're coming from.

It seems to me that the way things are at the moment an IFA can go through the motions, do minimal work and simply advise all their clients NOT to transfer and that will be £5,000 please. Thank you very much. What a nice little earner for them!

If they "went through the motions" and advised a client not to transfer they would be running an extremely high risk of complaints that would kill their business. As the Ombudsman case I referenced illustrates.

In isolation, advice not to transfer requires just as much work as advice to transfer. (Implementation of the transfer if recommended is separate.)

That is absolutely absurd! Maybe people should start trying to sue financial advisers on the basis their advice NOT to transfer was bad advice.

If it was bad advice, and they suffered a loss (one doesn't always follow the other), then yes they should complain.

Do you know of any IFA's who would allow someone to "grease their palms" nowadays?

Contingent charging is banned. Taking advice from dodgy IFAs willing to break regulations is a very bad idea. To transfer on an "advised client" basis you'd have to follow their advice on where the pension fund went (otherwise they wouldn't confirm to the pension provider that you were transferring on a positive recommendation, which leaves you back where you started), and god knows where it would end up.

If you were employing a dodgy IFA knowingly out of desperation, I'm sure you'd keep your eyes open and wouldn't follow advice to put any surplus pension into Cape Verde truffle farms, but everyone thinks they're immune to being scammed and a lot of them are wrong.

Apologies for the debating points, I'm out of helpful suggestions.

random129

HappyHarry said:

random129 said:

Their reasons were very vague and I got the impression they thought my case was more hassle than it was worth because they could never get the administrators of my pension to answer the phone or reply to their emails requesting further information, They waited over two months and still did not get a response so I suspect they simply did not want to continue and made a decision without waiting any longer for a reply.

Now I cannot seek advice from another IFA because the new regulations mean I would have to fork out in the region of £5,000 for the advice with no guarantee I could ultimately transfer.

Understood, but the IFA must have provided their reasons in writing. Especially since they signed the declaration.

You haven't said how much the transfer value was. Is there any chance it may fall below the £30,000 threshold if long term interest rates start to rise?

They didn't give me anything in writing apart from an Appropriate Advice Declaration form. That did not state their reasons for advising me not to transfer. If they should have done then it makes me think even more they just wanted me to go away because it was too much hassle trying to get my pension Administrators to reply to their requests for information. I did say to them at the time I thought it strange they could give me advice without receiving the additional information they had been trying for over two months to get the administrators to provide. I didn't pay them for their advice though because it was before the new regulations came into force in October so not sure I could complain about the IFA?

There is no chance it will fall below £30,000

xylophone said:

Are you so unwell that you are unable to work?

If so, is there a chance of an immediate pension on grounds of ill health?

Or  if not but aged over 55, are you able to access the DB pension with actuarial reduction?

Yes I am unable to work through ill health and receive ESA and PIP but an immediate pension would not solve what I need. I need funds to clear my debt, repair my property and pay for alternative treatments to ease the symptoms caused by my numerous health issues. I also want peace of mind that when I die any money left in my pension fund can go to my relatives. That will not be possible unless I transfer out of my DB pension because I am widowed and have no dependents.

Malthusian said:

Relatives would only benefit if I was ultimately allowed to transfer. If an IFA's advice was not to transfer and nobody would accept me as an insistent client then my pension will die with me and nobody will benefit.

As it stands there are two avenues for insistent clients:

• open a stakeholder pension and exercise the legal requirement that stakeholder pensions must accept a transfer from any registered pension scheme
  
• open your own SSAS

If you feel that both are too much of a risk and/or too expensive I entirely understand where you're coming from.

Thanks for that I will look into stakeholder pensions and an SSAS. The risk is now unimportant to me if it's the only way I can transfer. The rules, which were supposed to protect people from scams, are now forcing people like me to look for unsafe ways to exercise their statutory right to transfer. How ridiculous is that?!

Do you know if my IFA would be obliged have to make the transfer to either of those schemes for me even if they advise against it? If my pension administrators continue to insist my IFA must stick with me to make the transfer then I won't be able to do it myself.

HappyHarry

If they signed the advice declaration form then they must have given you advice.

Advice has to be in a permanent form e.g. write  or emailed. Not verbal. Else how would a provider know if the advice was to transfer or retain the DB pension  if there is no written record of the advice?

The new rules make no difference to the above. 

Don't get hung up on the death benefits being a good reason to transfer. This is your pension for your immediate needs. Nobody is going to approve a transfer on the basis of providing death benefits to extended family. Your other reasons for transfer are the pertinent ones if you look to employ a new adviser.