Unable to transfer my DB pension - can anyone help?

Keep_pedalling

random129 said:

Pablo7474 said:

Just a point that is meant to be helpful rather than challenging, but by saying you have debts you need to pay off and can only afford advice if a transfer is recommended could suggest there are issues managing money and actually the certainty of income in retirement could be best for you. Are there other options rather than transferring out? Down size? Work longer etc? 

I have explored every possible solution and transferring my pension is by far the best solution for me. No point in trying to down size as there are no cheaper homes on the market. I could release equity but that would not be sufficient to cover what I need. I cannot work due to ill health and doubt I will live long enough to benefit from the pension for life a DB pension offers. I am widowed with no dependent children so if I don't transfer and die tomorrow my pension will die with me and my financial affairs will be in a mess for my relatives to sort out. I want to get everything in order, clear my debts and have extra money to spare as a result each month which I can use to buy alternative treatments that help my symptoms. I cannot understand why I cannot do that.

I think you really should not worry about what happens after you die. Sorting out an estate that has more assets than debts is not that difficult, and if your estate is actually insolvent then none of your family should need to get involved in administering it.

Your main priority is your own welfare. I would certainly start by talking to one of the debt charities such as Stepchange.

Baring in mind you poor health and the need to spend money refurbishing your house, one option for you would be to sell up and obtain more suitable accommodation with a housing association.

DairyQueen

random129 said:

I have explored every possible solution and transferring my pension is by far the best solution for me. No point in trying to down size as there are no cheaper homes on the market. I could release equity but that would not be sufficient to cover what I need. I cannot work due to ill health and doubt I will live long enough to benefit from the pension for life a DB pension offers. I am widowed with no dependent children so if I don't transfer and die tomorrow my pension will die with me and my financial affairs will be in a mess for my relatives to sort out. I want to get everything in order, clear my debts and have extra money to spare as a result each month which I can use to buy alternative treatments that help my symptoms. I cannot understand why I cannot do that.

I am sympathetic to you OP but unclear whether the recommendation you received (not to transfer) is reasonable. Also, whether or not you really understand the risks of transferring and what the outcome could be if things went badly wrong. People rarely consider the downside of transferring. Those big numbers can be very seductive.
 
Some of the info you have revealed suggests you could be a candidate for transferring. Other info suggests not. 

Are you able to post the reasons the IFA gave for advising against a transfer? It won't change the outcome but it may be helpful for you/others to understand how circumstances are assessed, and why some issues may weigh heavily in one direction or another. The experts here (not me) may be able to shed more light on the specific risks the IFA identified in your case.

As things stand it looks like only those with a recommendation to transfer will be able to do so. Basic 'self-assessment', before approaching an IFA, may therefore be helpful in saving fees for those whose chances of receiving such a recommendation are slim. 

Circumstances that are assessed may include:

- life expectancy. Is your health condition likely to affect how long you live?
- dependants. You are widowed with no dependant children.
- experience of DIY investing. Does this apply?
- CETV as a multiple of the pension. Was your offer generous?
- financial health of the underwriting employer. Is this an underfunded scheme? Is the company suffering any woes?
- is the pension index-linked?
- other guaranteed income? Other income sources/investments? Your posts suggest that there may be a lack that supports staying put.
- appetite for risk. Are you very cautious?
- impact on current/future benefits
- understanding of SWR and sequence of returns, and how both are central to the amount you may drawdown each year.

How would you respond if you transferred and your pot dropped in value by 10%, 20%, more? How would you manage financially if a major market crash knocked 50% off the value and it didn't recover for five years? Or a decade? Unlikely, but the future is unknown. Last year's drop was very temporary but what if it hadn't been? 

I am playing devil's advocate as, perhaps, it really is best for you not to transfer.

Dale72

I think he has already established what he wants to do, I don't think any more questionaires are going to change that. What he needs is a way to do it. (Please don't take this as me not being nice to you, merely practical).

Pablo7474

And I think at the moment with a recommendation to stay we all believe there isn’t really any an option other than stay in the scheme… 

Dale72

There are always options, I've resolved mine, although not in a way that would help random129 unfortunately.

Pablo7474

Hmm, maybe, I am not sure it is possible anymore as it was a few weeks ago! 

DairyQueen

Dale72 said:

I think he has already established what he wants to do, I don't think any more questionaires are going to change that. What he needs is a way to do it. (Please don't take this as me not being nice to you, merely practical).

No probs. Nothing personal intended in your post. However, s/he (OP has not revealed gender) may be on the spectrum that the regulators are seeking to protect. I don't know. You don't know. What s/he wants/needs right now won't necessarily leave him/her in the best position in the years ahead. This is the kind of situation where an IFA's experience and training is intended to identify the best interests of those who may be lacking sufficient knowledge to see the wood through the trees.

I do know that there are many who have regretted being dazzled by those big figures. Plenty who have erroneously viewed 'cashing-in' as a one-way ticket only to be bitten....hard..... when markets don't play ball. Plenty who have lived to regret their short-termism.

I don't know if OP is amongst their number but I am of the opinion that far too many have transferred who will regret it. 

NB: I transferred three years ago with the support of an IFA recommendation. I have reduced life expectancy. No dependents. Mr DQ is 'well-pensioned'. I have experience of (non-expert) DIY investing and was offered a x 32 transfer on a (mostly) non-indexed-linked DB pension. We have other investments and income, and are risk tolerant. We will never qualify for benefits so that isn't an issue.

random129

DairyQueen said:

random129 said:

I have explored every possible solution and transferring my pension is by far the best solution for me. No point in trying to down size as there are no cheaper homes on the market. I could release equity but that would not be sufficient to cover what I need. I cannot work due to ill health and doubt I will live long enough to benefit from the pension for life a DB pension offers. I am widowed with no dependent children so if I don't transfer and die tomorrow my pension will die with me and my financial affairs will be in a mess for my relatives to sort out. I want to get everything in order, clear my debts and have extra money to spare as a result each month which I can use to buy alternative treatments that help my symptoms. I cannot understand why I cannot do that.

I am sympathetic to you OP but unclear whether the recommendation you received (not to transfer) is reasonable. Also, whether or not you really understand the risks of transferring and what the outcome could be if things went badly wrong. People rarely consider the downside of transferring. Those big numbers can be very seductive.
 
Some of the info you have revealed suggests you could be a candidate for transferring. Other info suggests not. 

I fully understand the risks of transferring. If things went badly wrong and worst case scenario the entire fund was lost I would obviously not be happy but I would still have been able to put the 25% I intend to take tax free to good use by clearing my debts saving me hundreds of pounds a month for the next four years meaning I could afford to pay for alternative treatments again which provide some relief from my disabling health symptoms. I would also have had essential repairs carried out on my property.

I have watched numerous videos and completed several Triage assessments. I could not be more informed about the risks.

I have also ran a few scenarios through a spreadsheet to see how transferring my pension might compare with leaving it where it is. Using the average past performance of funds I might transfer to and taking into account inflation and management fees the likely outcome would be I would run out of money in 2042 when I will be 83. That is if I take 25% now and invest the rest, drawing down the amount each year that I would have received from my DB pension. I would then still own 100% of my home which I could then sell if needed but the likelihood is I will either be dead by then or in a care home.

I fully understand that past performance is no guarantee of future results but it is a useful guideline. My fund might perform better or worse but I believe the risks are well worth taking in my circumstances.

Are you able to post the reasons the IFA gave for advising against a transfer? It won't change the outcome but it may be helpful for you/others to understand how circumstances are assessed, and why some issues may weigh heavily in one direction or another. The experts here (not me) may be able to shed more light on the specific risks the IFA identified in your case.

Their reasons were vague and I got the impression they thought my case wasn't worth the hassle to them. They had waited in vain for over two months for the Administrators of my DB Pension to reply to their request for further information. Despite numerous phone calls and follow up emails the Administrators didn't reply and did not provide the requested information so the IFA made their decision on the information they already had. I questioned at the time how they could make a decision without the information they wanted but to no avail. They did not provide anything in writing to me apart from an Appropriate Advice Declaration form and told me that should be enough to allow me to transfer my pension myself. It wasn't. With hindsight I should have maybe complained about my IFA at that time but I concentrated on trying to get the Administrators to extend the transfer quote expiry date so I could employ another IFA. But the Administrators never responded to my request despite numerous follow up phone calls and emails.

random129

Dale72 said:

There are always options, I've resolved mine, although not in a way that would help random129 unfortunately.

Have you managed to transfer your DB Pension against advice? Would you care to share how? 

Marcon

Have you asked (and if necessary checked again) if your DB scheme offers the option of a partial transfer? Relatively few schemes do, but it's worth asking. It's just what it sounds: you transfer part of your DB pension (you need advice if the total transfer value is over £30K) and leave the rest where it is.