Neighbour possibly interfering with water supply

coffeehound

[Although water, I think this is better suited to the Property board]

It's early days, but I'd appreciate opinions on how to pursue this pls.  The quarterly water bill has jumped from ~ £50 to £175.  The meter in the pavement agrees with the bill numbers.  I'm using less water if anything recently, so it's not usage.  No sign of leaks anywhere.   Excess usage looks to be 40-odd tonnes.

The water board were able to confirm the uptick in consumption and that it was not steady continuous usage but intermittent, which would tend to rule out a leak (water meters are smarter than I realised).

Funny thing is, downstairs neighbour has been waging a campaign of ASB and harrassment since I moved in 2½ years ago.  And it looks as though the pipe runs through his kitchen to reach here.  Long story short, it would be 100% in character for him to monkey with the pipe in order to run my bill up.  Although I'm renting as a private tenant, it is an HA-owned block.

What I'm wondering is how best to ensure any tampering gets discovered.  He will have very cleverly disguised any evidence of tampering behind some nice-looking boxing-in or trim to attempt to stop it being ripped out for a full inspection.  It would be the HA's own contracted plumbers, I would guess.  Given that it could be foul play, could the water board police this?

I'm waiting on the WB supplying the full usage history so I can graph it to build a case, if indeed it doesn't prove to be something else altogether.  In the meantime, any thoughts greatfully received 

theoretica

Does the water come in to your property in one accessible pipe?  Your own second water meter to cross compare with might be overkill or necessary.

Do you see your neighbour's water meter when you access yours?  Taking readings from that to compare with average from when the meter was new might also be useful data to record.

moneysavinghero

If the water board are saying that it is not steady continuous usage then they must have some sort of smart meter to be able to see this. Could you maybe try saying to them i will not use my water at all on X date - could you confirm whether your meters show any usage on that date. Surely they would have to investigate further if it did show usage.

SameOldRoundabout

I would go back to your water board. The one I recently left a job with didn’t have the kind of meters that could be that precise (in fact I didn’t think they existed) and would also send someone out for a check if you alleged someone else had tampered with the meter. 

Ps, as above, turn your internal stop !!!!!! off, take a meter read, then another an hour or so later. (Obviously do this when the neighbour is home). If the read changes at all it indicates usage so you’d need fo go to WB and say you’ve done an internal leak test and can confirm it is not your usage. I’m surprised they did not ask you to do this as it is standard practise. 

coffeehound

theoretica said:

Does the water come in to your property in one accessible pipe?  Your own second water meter to cross compare with might be overkill or necessary.

Do you see your neighbour's water meter when you access yours?  Taking readings from that to compare with average from when the meter was new might also be useful data to record.

A secondary meter, that's an interesting idea.  I guess monitoring his usage might help if he were using the water, but perhaps more likely he would just sending it to the drain?  Might well take readings just in case though, thanks.

moneysavinghero said:

If the water board are saying that it is not steady continuous usage then they must have some sort of smart meter to be able to see this. Could you maybe try saying to them i will not use my water at all on X date - could you confirm whether your meters show any usage on that date. Surely they would have to investigate further if it did show usage.

I'm going to be away for a few days next week so could shut off my supply and just see what happens while I'm away.  He is extremely sly, though, and due to odd fluctuations in the supply to the shower, I wonder if he just runs water while I'm drawing water to make it harder to detect and identify . .

eddddy

moneysavinghero said:

Could you maybe try saying to them i will not use my water at all on X date - could you confirm whether your meters show any usage on that date. Surely they would have to investigate further if it did show usage.

You can do this yourself (with or without a smart meter). 

• You probably have a main stop-tap inside your house/flat. Turn it off.

• Then take a water meter reading from the meter in the pavement. Keep the stop-tap in your house/flat turned off for as long as you choose. (e.g. 30 mins, 2 hours, 8 hours, etc)

• Without turning your stop-tap in the house/flat back on - read the water meter in the pavement again. If the reading has increased, water is being 'lost' somewhere between the pavement meter and your house/flat. 

Also, have you checked for things like a sticking ball valve or sticking flush valve in a toilet cistern (or maybe in a cold water tank). It may only be getting stuck occasionally, which might explain the occasional bursts of extra water consumption.

• You can modify the test above by leaving the stop-tap turned on in the house/flat - but not turning on any taps or flushing any toilets for 30 mins or 2 hours or 8 hours etc, and seeing if there is any water usage.

coffeehound

SameOldRoundabout said:

I would go back to your water board. The one I recently left a job with didn’t have the kind of meters that could be that precise (in fact I didn’t think they existed) and would also send someone out for a check if you alleged someone else had tampered with the meter. 

Yeah news to me too but the person said they can read at ½ hour intervals so must be like elec and gas smart meters.  Thanks as above will try closing off at the stopcock for a while.

coffeehound

eddddy said:

You can do this yourself (with or without a smart meter). 

• You probably have a main stop-tap inside your house/flat. Turn it off.

• Then take a water meter reading from the meter in the pavement. Keep the stop-tap in your house/flat turned off for as long as you choose. (e.g. 30 mins, 2 hours, 8 hours, etc)

• Without turning your stop-tap in the house/flat back on - read the water meter in the pavement again. If the reading has increased, water is being 'lost' somewhere between the pavement meter and your house/flat. 

Also, have you checked for things like a sticking ball valve or sticking flush valve in a toilet cistern (or maybe in a cold water tank). It may only be getting stuck occasionally, which might explain the occasional bursts of extra water consumption.

• You can modify the test above by leaving the stop-tap turned on in the house/flat - but not turning on any taps or flushing any toilets for 30 mins or 2 hours or 8 hours etc, and seeing if there is any water usage.

Thanks will give this a try, perhaps for most of a day when I go out and again for the longer peiod.  Will also check the items you suggest.  Pipes to the bathroom go through the loft so I'll need to check up there.

Keswick1uk

We have a shared supply  but didn't know. It didn't matter when on rates but we decided to try a meter out. It was fitted. We got suspicious and turned water off. We saw it being used, like you, intermittently.

Because this was innocent, we visited neighbours to see if they were using water and identified the house. Told water company. They came and checked it out and confirmed. We are now on an assessed charge based on 2 people because they cannot stop this happening.

So, although you will need to do this more covertly,  I would speak to the water board with your issues. They were very helpful to us.

Norman_Castle

coffeehound said:

  The quarterly water bill has jumped from ~ £50 to £175. 

What I'm wondering is how best to ensure any tampering gets discovered. 

125x4 is £500 per year. Enquire about getting the meter moved to inside your property. Mines under the sink and takes very little room. If the old meter is left in place the supplier may read both and question if water is being stolen as suggested but I suspect they will do nothing to pursue this. Similarly with the HA, its not worth the effort for them to look for evidence on your behalf based on a possibility he has tapped your pipe.

If you suspect your mains feed runs vertically through his property behind boxing in if you've got access at the top could an inspection camera view the pipe behind the boxing in? 

Grumpy_chap

As with an energy billing query - has the bill jumped in value or has the consumption jumped?  Have you been taking regular readings?

The water meter should be positioned at the entrance to your property, not away from the boundary.  It may be possible to ask the water company to move the meter.

Alternatively, fit your own check meter where the pipe comes into your property.

It is still possible that you have a leak and the flow is intermittent.  It could be that when there is demand in the property, the pressure drops and the leak slows, but when you are not drawing water, the pressure builds and the leak increases.  Could also be affected by water use in the area (not malicious) affecting pressure and / or a sticky valve that sometimes closes and sometimes not.