Civil Enforcement Ltd chasing the cash

ti_da97

Hi everyone. A newbie here. I read through the Newbie FAQs; however, some links weren't accessible. Apologies in advance if I get something or everything wrong. 

So, in Sep 2019 we ran foul of the delightful Civil Enforcement Ltd (CEL). On the date in question, we were returning home when my phone rang. I stopped at the nearest safe place to do so, a mostly-empty car park with nothing particularly obvious about it. 15ish mins later we were on our way.

- It was dark, with no visibly lit signage. I didn't even know it was a hotel until I got the PCN, THAT's how unlit it was.
- I did not exit the vehicle
- I could not see any other signage near my vehicle
- The car park was maybe 1/4 full at best, thus inconveniencing no-one 
- I've seen no photographic proof of my vehicle there, but in my defence statement I've since admitted that I was there (this didn't come into play until this year)

Lo and behold at some point a PCN showed up. We hadn't left the house much and around three weeks after the event we left for a few days. Upon coming home there was a shiny demand for money, which had obviously arrived outside of the 14 days they give for the "discount" amount (60) after the date they gave on the letter. (The letter was dated 23rd Sep or something and it hadn't turned up before the middle of October.) This was followed about a week later with a second demand for payment as it was past the 30 days (28th Oct) and they wanted it in full (100).

- The PCN states "authorised vehicles only" as my breaking of the rules
- The PCN does not make any mention of KEEPER or OWNER, purely that the vehicle was there at the time given
- The second letter states that it was too late for IAS intervention/appeal at that point

At this point, I likely cocked up. I phoned them. I explained that I had been away, and hadn't had the chance to appeal or to pay the lesser amount. The woman on the other end told me to send in any evidence I had that explained as such, which they would review then accept any appeal or lower payment. So I did, I sent in copies of a couple of fuel receipts (seriously, how do you prove you've stayed somewhere else in a paperless world?) with my return address, their reference no. (PCN Number), and didn't hear a single word back.

- My letter contained an offer for a pound in-keeping with local costs for parking under 1 hour
- I'm trying to dig out the originals receipts, but again, who keeps those?
- Due to a HD corruption, it's 50/50 whether I have the original letter

Fast forward to this year. I've not had anything else through, and here comes an N1(?) form, telling me I'm going to court. I type up a defence, stating what exactly I had done, the fact that I had clearly inconvenienced no one, I hadn't heard from them in x amount of time, etc.

This has just gone through mediation, where they demanded a minimum of 85 to settle, or it goes to court. In the process of mediation, I have also been told that they never received my letter and that they had sent several letters (they said THEY had sent them, not "debt collectors" which sounds odd if true, but I digress), which I certainly didn't receive.

- My letter was NOT sent recorded
- Their letters also could NOT have been sent recorded

It's now been sent through to the court, as they were unwilling to move or accept any argument/discussion, and they're constantly sticking to citing Beavis vs Parking Eye (I think) as justification of how they can chase me for payment. I've been researching, as has my partner, into what we can do to bolster defence, etc. I'm aware of things like Mccaferty vs CEL, and I have screenshots of reviews/testimonials of the hotel that the car park was attached to all complaining about parking charges even after entering their details into the hotel's system. The hotel seems unwilling to help.

- I have photographic proof in day time of their signage where you can clearly see it has no lights, and will be making a return trip in the evening to show it unlit (though this may have changed in 18 months, I doubt it)
- I have drafted an SAR which will be printed and sent via recorded delivery
- I do not yet have a court date, and do not know whether it will be in-person or remote

The current amount they are demanding sits at roughly 250 and some change, this was prior to the mediation stage. They stated via mediation that each letter after the second effectively added more costs, leading to this 250 amount.

Any help/suggestions? I think I've included everything.

Coupon-mad

Dont send a SAR signed for!  My goodness that is not what the NEWBIES thread says.

Never phone a PPC and NEVER use signed for post, or any letters by post. We are not in the 1970s any more, this is what email is for and the SAR section of the NEWBIES thread tells you how to find the right SAR email address for any PPC.

The SAR will be interesting if they show the appeal letter they said was never received. No idea why you posted it but that’s water under the bridge, as was the phone call you made. 

The fact the PCN arrived late is also nothing for you to use because you admitted to driving so threw that baby out with the bath water.

You were also NOT MEANT TO ATTEND MEDIATION...the NEWBIES thread tells you this (too late, I know).  Hmmmm... at least you didn’t fall for it and settle when the Mediator bullied you to try to make you offer money, so that’s done no damage and is in the past.

Look, if you firstly read the template defence you should have sent (see thread called Template defence, top of the forum) you will learn what the answer is to PPCs inventing added ‘costs’ for demand letters that the £100 (£85?) already more than covers.  They are talking rubbish and have incurred no debt recovery or admin costs over and above the £100, of £85 if that’s what the horrific PCN was.

You are at Witness Statement and evidence stage and your main evidence will be pics of the signs in the dark, proving they are unlit. And those reviews can be appended to your WS as well to show there is a predatory operation at this location.

And append Excel v Wilkinson to explain why they can’t add £70. Copy the style of the WS by @jrhys and show us your draft.

Also, please show here your EXACT defence, word for word. You can’t change it now and we need to see what you can expand on in your WS.

D_P_Dance

If it was dark and the signs were not lit they are likely to struggle to convince a judge that you agreed to their T&C. Have you complained to your MP? Clearly they are asking for unlawful sums, read this Excel v Wilkinson At the Bradford County Court, District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) decided to hear a 'test case' a few months ago, where £60 had been added to a parking charge despite Judges up and down the country repeatedly disallowing that sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims.   That case was Excel v Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, heard in July 2020 and leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.  The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with 'an improper collateral purpose'.   This Judge - and others who have since copied her words and struck dozens of cases out in late 2020 and into 2021 - went into significant detail and concluded that parking operators (such as this Claimant) are seeking to circumvent CPR 27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   DJ Hickinbottom has recently struck more cases out in that court area, stating: ''I find that striking out this claim is the only appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown''. https://www.dropbox.com/s/16qovzulab1szem/G4QZ465V Excel v Wilkinson.pdf?dl=0