Would be grateful for your thoughts on level 2 versus level 3 survey

Hebblethwaite

Hello all,

Would be grateful for your thoughts on the following (scroll to the end for a tldr for those of you who prefer a very concise query!):

I'm a FTB who has had an offer accepted on a 1950s semi. The house was bought as a new-build by the vendor and overall seems well-loved and cared for. There's clear evidence of things being updated (e.g. a new boiler and consumer unit in 2013, and the kitchen and bathroom don't look older than the late 90s) and it looked in good condition when I viewed. I had a good nosey around for any evidence of cracks or damp and didn't see anything concerning. Although I haven't owned before, I have rented several older properties and feel I have a reasonable sense of where problems tend to lurk! There is some moss on the roof of the house (near the chimney), and some slipped tiles on the detached garage roof (looking up, I could see glimpses of sky) but those were the only obvious problems, neither of which I find alarming. I am also expecting to want to rewire and then replaster (as far as I can tell, the consumer unit is relatively new and there is some new wiring to the kitchen, but the vendor says the rest of the wiring in the house is original), and will want to take out a built-in pantry and have a new kitchen fitted around the same time (to minimise the length of time there is mess and disruption rather than because the kitchen is in a terrible state and needs replacing immediately). The vendor said that the house had never caused her any trouble (and I guess she would say that, but she seems honest!)

I want to decide in the next day or so whether to go for a level 2 or 3 survey. With everything I've said so far, it sounds like a level 2 survey would be fine. However, there is a flat-roofed side extension over a carport that was apparently built around 30 years ago, but for which there doesn't appear to be any planning permission. Based on reading this forum, I know that the council can't take any enforcement action for an extension of this age (which might be a permitted development anyway) and my solicitor is just likely to recommend the vendor pays for indemnity. However, it does seem like the sort of thing where it would be helpful to have a surveyor take a detailed look, though obviously they will only be able to give me an opinion based on what they can see and can't comment on the foundations (nor probably on the flat-roof, which is higher than 3m and not visible from inside the house). To me, the extension looks pretty solid (and it's not fallen down yet!) I looked very carefully for any obvious issues and didn't find anything, but beyond looking for damp or cracks, I don't really know what I might be looking for! There's also a PVC rear porch and french windows that aren't original, though both looked fine. 

I was expecting to want a level 3 survey (especially as most of the houses I've viewed have been older than this one) but one company have sent me examples of their level 2 and level 3 surveys and there doesn't seem to be a huge amount of difference between them. It seems possible that a level 2 survey will answer the questions that I have: namely, does the extension seem of reasonable construction (I'm expecting the answer to be yes, given it is still standing, but what the heck do I know?) and what work will I want to prioritise after completion? I'm not a scaredy FTB looking to knock money off my offer (I mean, I am a scaredy FTB, but I've lived in a lot of houses and lurked on these forums a lot, and don't think I'll be easily alarmed by the usual we-couldn't-asses-this-so-it's-a-3 backside covering survey speak), I just want to get a better understanding of the house where I hope to spend many happy years.

So, any thoughts about whether you would go for a level 2 or a level 3 in this situation? I know there are some of you here who don't believe in surveys at all, but I do think I would find a survey of some kind helpful!

Tldr: Buying 1950s semi. Looks in good condition. There's a 30-year-old flat-roofed side extension with no planning permission. Level 2 or 3 survey?

[Deleted User]

I've had both level 2 and level 3 survey's for properties. IMO you are correct - there's not a huge difference between the two. I actually think level 2's are easier to read and can be read as a maintenance list and very clear priority list. Level 3's aren't massively more detailed, just slightly messier I feel. The general rule of thumb is 100 years + go for level 3, anything else, level 2.
I've sold a 1950's semi and I think what you are saying is probably v true. Well built, just needs bringing up to standards with rewires, plastering etc. For the flat roof area, anything that is concerning will be raised on level 2 anyway x

Hebblethwaite

Thank you, that is helpful.

user1977

You sound more concerned about the 30 year old extension than the 70 year old remainder of the house. In any event, historic planning permission isn't going to prove anything about the current condition of the property.

Bear in mind some of what is "extra" in a level 3 survey might not be feasible depending on what the surveyor can get access to e.g. they'll look under the floor, but not if the floor is covered with carpets and furniture and there's no easy way in. Or they'll inspect the loft thoroughly, but maybe not if it's full of junk.

Tracet74

Level 2 unquestionably.  A Level 3 is for older properties, in a run down condition or of non-traditional construction!

Hebblethwaite

user1977 said:

You sound more concerned about the 30 year old extension than the 70 year old remainder of the house. 

Yes, I suppose I am. The main part of the house was built at the same time as about 10 others on the street, and all appear to have stood the test of time pretty well so I'm fairly confident in the original build. Obviously, the vendors could have done something odd to the innards of the house, but I don't think they have. The extension is the only bit that gives me pause. I think my concern is that if planning permission was expected (and, although I think it may be a permitted development, other houses on the street with similar extensions have sought and received planning permission) then does that mean it was built by a dodgy builder who has cut other corners too? But then it is still standing after 30 years so it's almost certainly absolutely fine!

To be honest, I don't think I'd be bothered at all if I thought this was a forever house - I grew up in house with an extension that was considerably more dodgy than this one, but that has never actually caused any significant issues (though my poor father does fret that he will come down one morning and find it in a heap in the garden!) However, I'd be surprised if I haven't moved on within the next ten years, so it would be helpful to know that my future buyer's survey isn't going to tie itself in knots. Clearly I am just getting ahead of myself and overthinking!!! Probably because after lots of quick-fire decisions (make an offer? how much? which solicitor? which lender?) this is now the only element of the purchase I can control for some time to come. Ah, the psychology of house buying... 

Hebblethwaite

Thanks all. I've had a phone call today from one of the surveyors from whom I requested a quote. He has had a look at the house online and has also said a level 2 survey will tell me everything that I want to know. He's the only surveyor to take that extra step, so I was all set to book him on the spot, except he is booked up until the end of July! I can't complete for ages (vendor is buying a new build) so I will probably go with him anyway, but just doing a final run-through of my options first.

badger09

Hebblethwaite said:

Thanks all. I've had a phone call today from one of the surveyors from whom I requested a quote. He has had a look at the house online and has also said a level 2 survey will tell me everything that I want to know. He's the only surveyor to take that extra step, so I was all set to book him on the spot, except he is booked up until the end of July! I can't complete for ages (vendor is buying a new build) so I will probably go with him anyway, but just doing a final run-through of my options first.

That sounds like a plan. Presumably, your mortgage lender hasn't yet done their valuation? If that throws any curve balls, then you might not want to go ahead with a survey anyway. If you do, I'd suggest booking surveyor & letting vendors know approx date. Shouldn't be an issue for them but at least they'll know you're proceeding.

Hebblethwaite

badger09 said:

Hebblethwaite said:

Thanks all. I've had a phone call today from one of the surveyors from whom I requested a quote. He has had a look at the house online and has also said a level 2 survey will tell me everything that I want to know. He's the only surveyor to take that extra step, so I was all set to book him on the spot, except he is booked up until the end of July! I can't complete for ages (vendor is buying a new build) so I will probably go with him anyway, but just doing a final run-through of my options first.

That sounds like a plan. Presumably, your mortgage lender hasn't yet done their valuation? If that throws any curve balls, then you might not want to go ahead with a survey anyway. If you do, I'd suggest booking surveyor & letting vendors know approx date. Shouldn't be an issue for them but at least they'll know you're proceeding.

Yes, it's a bit odd as my mortgage offer has come through but no mention of a valuation. I'm operating under the assumption that it is subject to valuation as I can't imagine they are just going to throw money at me without knowing they can recoup it if I do a runner! (NB: If my lender is spying on me, I am definitely not planning to do a runner.) I wouldn't be surprised by a down valuation of up to £10k, especially if it's a desktop valuation, but could make up a shortfall of that amount while still maintaining the same LTV, and also covering fees, paying for a rewire and a new kitchen. I'm deliberately not buying at the limits of my affordability because I am pretty cautious by nature so I'm perfectly happy to take a small devaluation in my stride! If it is downvalued by a lot more than that because of some factor that I have overlooked (being rather new to all of this!), then I may want to rediscuss the price (I offered asking in a market where, even pre-COVID, asking price was really code for OIEO, so it's not like I've just thrown a wild number into the ring), but it will be helpful to have the survey to guide that as well. 

I worry that if I wait for a valuation to be done, it will be even longer before the surveyor is available. If the worse comes to the worst, I can afford to lose the cost of a survey. I don't want to (!!!), but it wouldn't be a complete disaster. I reckon I'm best off just getting the survey booked in and hope it all proceeds as planned. 

badger09

What exactly do you mean by 'my mortgage offer has come through'?

Do you have a formal offer from your lender? If so, then they will have done a valuation for their own purposes, basically to ensure they will be able to get their money back if you default & they have to repossess. They won't tell you what that valuation is, and even the vendor might not know it has taken place, because the valuer doesn't visit. People only usually find out, because the lender will not lend them as much as they'd assumed. 

Hebblethwaite

badger09 said:

What exactly do you mean by 'my mortgage offer has come through'?

Do you have a formal offer from your lender? If so, then they will have done a valuation for their own purposes, basically to ensure they will be able to get their money back if you default & they have to repossess. They won't tell you what that valuation is, and even the vendor might not know it has taken place, because the valuer doesn't visit. People only usually find out, because the lender will not lend them as much as they'd assumed. 

Yes, I have a formal offer. My broker said it was on the basis of an initial estimated valuation and that the lender reserved the right to withdraw the offer if the formal valuation came back significantly lower. Hence my assumption that there was going to be a separate formal valuation.

That said, they have stated that the minimum amount the property could be worth for me to borrow the same amount would be about 30% less than I'm paying (presumably as I'm putting down a 35% deposit) so maybe that's enough for them? The chances of it being downvalued by that much are essentially nil, unless somebody has done something very ridiculous with it at some point. But, in that case, it will probably just not be mortgageable at all!