LPA and bank accounts

Ibliss

My dad and I are both named attorneys on an LPA set up for my mum, who has unfortunately now reached the stage where she has lost the mental capacity to deal with finances etc.  We are at the point of needing to register the LPA with a couple of banks that my mum holds accounts with - HSBC, Santander and Halifax.  I believe the process of doing this is reasonable straightforward but I'm unsure of what the outcome will be.  For example, once we have registered the LPA with HSBC, will we be able to manage mum's accounts using online banking?  Will the accounts be accessible via our own log-in or would we need to create a new log-in specifically to deal with her accounts?
Would we have to go in branch to manage the accounts?  I'm not having much luck finding answers online as every website and resource seems to be a guide to setting up an LPA and the merits of doing so; nothing seems to actually tell you what happens when you need to use it!  I have more questions, but thought I would start with this and see if anyone can shed some light on the topic, or point me to any good online resources.    Thanks.

Vortigern

Banks vary in their treatment of LPAs.

I've used LPA with Santander. The LPA account appeared with my own accounts in online banking using my existing ID and password. All the usual transactions permitted except for same day faster payments. Future dated FPs are accepted.

Also used LPA with Halifax and was given a separate ID and password, full online banking, debit card and cheque book.

I've no experience of using HSBC with LPA

cymruchris

First if you haven't done so - activate the LPA on the government portal (assuming it's a fairly recent LPA?), then each bank will have a different procedure to link the LPA with your mum's accounts. I recently did it for Santander, Barclays and Natwest. The only one that you have there that I had in common, is Santander - I filled out an online form, emailed them a scanned copy of the LPA as well as copies of my passport and license, and my dad's license, and then they supplied me with my own login details, my own debit card, and could have access on my phone to all three of his accounts.

The only thing you can't do is to send a faster payments bank transfer the same day - it has to be dated at least one day ahead. Otherwise you can access the account like any other. Santander were the quickest to get everything set up - took them about two weeks. Barclays took nearly a month, and Natwest were still processing my application 6 weeks later when my dad passed away, and I received all the debit cards and access codes about a week after he'd gone. 

Barclays and Santander were provided with an access code from the online LPA portal as well as the scanned copy - so they were able to view the lodged LPA online. Natwest didn't do that.

If I'd known it would have taken that long, I would have instigated the process sooner, rather than waiting for the time when it was essentially needed. (My dad would have been fine with that - but I just held the premise that I didn't want to be able to access it until I needed to access it).

I started just by calling each of the banks, and they linked me up with the relevant online access to complete the LPA form submissions - that's a good place for you to start - but definitely get it done sooner than later, as it's not something that's instantly completed.

blue.peter

Ibliss said:

My dad and I are both named attorneys on an LPA set up for my mum, who has unfortunately now reached the stage where she has lost the mental capacity to deal with finances etc.  We are at the point of needing to register the LPA with a couple of banks that my mum holds accounts with - HSBC, Santander and Halifax.  I believe the process of doing this is reasonable straightforward but I'm unsure of what the outcome will be.  For example, once we have registered the LPA with HSBC, will we be able to manage mum's accounts using online banking?  Will the accounts be accessible via our own log-in or would we need to create a new log-in specifically to deal with her accounts?

Does the PofA give authority to the two of you "jointly" or "jointly and severally"? If you're only able to act jointly, you might well find that banks deny you online access. This is because online access allows one of you to give instructions alone, i.e., without the other's involvement.

jbuchanangb

Does the PofA give authority to the two of you "jointly" or "jointly and severally"? If you're only able to act jointly, you might well find that banks deny you online access. This is because online access allows one of you to give instructions alone, i.e., without the other's involvement.

This is an important question. My late father set up for myself and my sister to act as Attorneys "jointly", not "jointly and severally". No online access was available. Every transaction had to be done on paper with two signatures. This included setting up new Standing Orders or Direct Debits, and cashing cheques. The when he died, his bank, TSB (ex Lloyds) refused to open an Executor account for us even though we were named in his will as joint executors. Nightmare!

Ibliss

Thanks for your replies, all really helpful.  To fill in a few more details:
The LPA is set up a "Jointly and Severally".
My dad and I have both set up our online account on the .gov.uk site to register the LPA, so my understanding is that (for some banks including HSBC) we can use the website to generate a code to allow the bank to view the LPA and avoid having to send in paper copies.
From what has been said here, it sounds like we will end up with full online access to all existing accounts held in my Mum's name and can then use them as we would any of our accounts ie there is no restriction on being able to cancel payments or set up standing orders.  
Does anyone know if new accounts can be set up on behalf of the donor - say, for example setting up a regular saver to try and make the most of her savings?  

Having just investigated the HSBC online registration it seems you can only use the service if you are the sole attorney.  As there are two name attorneys we have to make a branch appointment, which is going to be difficult to organise at the moment if we have to both be at the branch at the same time - or could we attend separate branch meetings?  Looks like I'm now at the stage where I have to phone the bank after all.
Thanks.

BooJewels

I think, as you're finding, LPAs make things possible - but they certainly don't make them easy.

I am/have been an attorney for 3 elderly family members and actively used 2 of them - one more so than the other.  It has been my experience that companies vary enormously in how they respond to them - some just take your word that you have one - or ask to see a scan of it and then just get on with what you've asked of them - and others (I'm looking at you Barclays) make it almost impossible to get the thing registered and access to the account - and take their own sweet time working through the process.  We did have to both (sister and I) attend an in-branch appointment, which was largely where it went wrong, the woman we met just took against me for some reason.  She registered my sister there and then, but despite having around 20 proof of address documents with me, she rejected every one for some reason - and put a lot of effort into doing so - reading every letter and finding something she didn't like in the content to discount it.

I felt that some companies automatically adopted the default attitude that you're only using it to scam poor old auntie Dot of her life savings and put every conceivable obstacle in your way until you satisfy them otherwise.

Santander were fabulous and got it sorted within days of me filling in their on-line forms - the donor accounts just appeared in my own on-line banking log-in and it all went blissfully smoothly and I used it for about 18 months.  And yes, I did set up a savings account for the donor during that time - so it can be done.

Vortigern

Ibliss said:

Does anyone know if new accounts can be set up on behalf of the donor - say, for example setting up a regular saver to try and make the most of her savings?  

Yes, you should be able to open additional accounts with the same bank relatively easily. You should also be able to open accounts where neither you nor the donor have any existing business.

Vortigern

BooJewels said:

We did have to both (sister and I) attend an in-branch appointment, which was largely where it went wrong, the woman we met just took against me for some reason.  She registered my sister there and then, but despite having around 20 proof of address documents with me, she rejected every one for some reason - and put a lot of effort into doing so - reading every letter and finding something she didn't like in the content to discount it.

I had a similar problem. I suspect the cause was the individual employee rather than company policy. Sadly, all customer facing organisations seem to have a  "Jobsworth" lurking somewhere, waiting to raise the blood pressure of their next victim.

blue.peter

Vortigern said:

Ibliss said:

Does anyone know if new accounts can be set up on behalf of the donor - say, for example setting up a regular saver to try and make the most of her savings?  

Yes, you should be able to open additional accounts with the same bank relatively easily. You should also be able to open accounts where neither you nor the donor have any existing business.

Not necessarily. It depends on the authority granted by the PofA. You're assuming that the power granted is wide enough to allow this. Whilst that's common, we shouldn't make assumptions about this specific case.

BooJewels

Vortigern said:

BooJewels said:

We did have to both (sister and I) attend an in-branch appointment, which was largely where it went wrong, the woman we met just took against me for some reason.  She registered my sister there and then, but despite having around 20 proof of address documents with me, she rejected every one for some reason - and put a lot of effort into doing so - reading every letter and finding something she didn't like in the content to discount it.

I had a similar problem. I suspect the cause was the individual employee rather than company policy. Sadly, all customer facing organisations seem to have a  "Jobsworth" lurking somewhere, waiting to raise the blood pressure of their next victim.

I'm pretty sure that was the case - and said as much - but she used the mantra of 'company policy' and nothing to do with her, she was just following company protocols - to justify it.  When it hadn't been sorted after some time, I went back to the woman on the phone who had sent me the forms to fill in and advised me on what to take in to the bank and she told me to send her scans of a couple of the documents I said I had and replied within minutes by email to say they were totally acceptable and she had no idea why they'd been rejected.  As far as she was concerned, the sender (i.e. an organisation of note, like HMRC) and my full address being on them were all that were needed - the content was irrelevant. A point I had tried arguing in branch - it was after all, supposed to be 'proof of address'.

It was just to make the point really, that whilst LPAs puts you in a position of being able to help someone when they need it, don't expect the process to be easy, speedy or straightforward.  M&S Bank were equally difficult - they didn't like the certified copy I took with me, they wanted the original, until they took advice from HO - I don't think the youngster I saw even knew what a certified copy was at that point.  Having made me travel 40 miles to a particular type of branch and wait an hour after my appointment time.  It gets tedious trying to do several of these simultaneously.