Initial Parking / Appeal Rejected / POPLA advice required - all stickies/FAQs read

HelpfulHints99

Afternoon all.
Hopefully, just some quick guidance required as I've read lots of the great advice on here already.
I received a PCN/NTK from Initial Parking this week as the keeper of a vehicle that had "unpaid tariff time" at White Moss Lower Car Park.  It seems I'm not alone in getting stung here:  lots of reports on Trust Pilot and Google.        
The facts:

• Bank Holiday weekend, car park very busy so had to wait short time (5mins) for space to become available  
• Driver had to download a new parking app, set up a new account and start the parking session (6 mins).  There was no option available to start the session from an earlier time - it could only start it immediately.
• This occurred in the Lake District, the driver had walked up a hill, had limited signal, so when they wanted to extend the session there was a 6 min gap between sessions.  Again, no facility to extend the original session after it had finished or start the new session from an earlier time so the gap was unavoidable in those circumstances.  
• The driver returned to the car on time but by the time they exited the car park, they were around 3 mins over the end of the paid period.    
• In total therefore there were just over 20 minutes that were unpaid for.  I could understand the penalty more if it was just a simple 20-minute overstay but given it was an accumulated total that doesn't tell a story of the driver trying to avoid paying, I feel I have a case.  Am I being naive?  Are these circumstances relevant?  
• I appealed to Initial Parking as the Keeper including my proof of payments - they sent a standard rejection letter which I replied to immediately including the templated response from the Newbies thread - I hadn't looked for help before as, naively, I thought it was a simple mix-up and all would be well once I'd sent proof of payment.
• In their initial response they incorrectly asserted only 3 hours had been paid for, when actually it was 4.  They corrected this in their second response but said the charge was still justified.  They didn't supply any of the information I requested for explanations, evidence, photos, actual grace periods etc (as detailed in the template). 
• I have identified and complained to the land owner, who wanted nothing to do with the complaint and simply referred me back to Initial Parking, despite my assertions about the reputational damage they were incurring by association with these thieves.

I am about to embark on my POPLA appeal and wanted to check a couple of things having read through other appeals.

• POPLA system asks why I'm appealing - I have read that I should use Other and then upload a PDF with all the evidence.  I assume there is a reason not to use the pre-filled section provided even though it accurately describes my situation? There is the option to use: "The amount requested on the parking charge is not correct" > "You have already paid the parking charge notice".  
• Common sense tells me that the fact that their payment system doesn't permit me to start a parking period any earlier than the current time must be relevant.  Do you agree?  I don't see how this situation could be avoided.  I am assuming it's to do with grace periods agreed to by the landowner, hence the question in the original appeal?

I've tried hard not to commit the cardinal newbie sin of asking questions covered elsewhere as I've tried to self-serve on this but apologies in advance if my research was lacking.
Thanks in advance for any wise words, they'll be much appreciated.
Kind regards
HH

Coupon-mad

But neither of these are true, and none of the options on the POPLA website are useful, so we always ONLY click 'OTHER'

There is the option to use: "The amount requested on the parking charge is not correct" > "You have already paid the parking charge notice".  

You will have to talk about how busy the car park was and the time taken to download the app for the first time.  One way of showing POPL evidence of how long it takes to download the new app for the first time is to use your phone to record a video of your partner/friend, going through the motions of downloading that same app for the very first time and setting up an account, and then attach that video as well as your PDF appeal.  POPLA want to see evidence and the only way you can explain the time taken is to show them what the app is like.

D_P_Dance

Have you complained to your MP?

HelpfulHints99

Many thanks for both those replies.  The idea of recording a video to show the length of time it takes to download the app and set up an account is very good indeed - thanks for sharing.  I will be sure to do that.   

D_P_Dance said:

Have you complained to your MP?

I'm not local to the car park at which it happened, however, I will find out the constituency and write to the relevant person.   
I still don't see how a driver can be penalised when the payment system provided doesn't permit that driver to pay for the entire period in which they were in the car park.  That fails so many tests - common sense, reasonableness etc.
Thanks again
HH 

D_P_Dance

Protocol id that you contact your own MP.,  You are not being penalised, you re being scammed   You  are are not dealing with John Lewis here.

HelpfulHints99

Umkomaas said:

HelpfulHints99 said:

Sincere thanks to @Fruitcake, @Umkomaas and @Coupon-mad for the additional guidance, reassurance and wise words - I appreciate you taking time to share your expertise and advice.  With all of it ringing in my ears, I feel re-energised to push back against this bullying, so will sit tight and see what happens.        

Thank you again
Kind regards
J

We're always here to help along the way. 

Hello again to the helpful and supportive MSE community particularly those who helped and advised previously.  

I'm just posting a follow-up in this original thread rather than clogging up the POPLA decisions thread in which I posted about my unsuccessful appeal.  

I sat tight following the POPLA decision and have just received my first chase letter.  

Nothing here to change my mind but just sharing and confirming that I should just maintain radio silence?  The advice is to not engage from everything I have read?  The 7 day deadline they give has actually already passed as we were away for week and this arrived in our absence.

Thanks in advance for any wise words - it really helps to have folk who know more about this than I do offer reassurance.  The time you take to respond is genuinely appreciated.  

All the best and kind regards

J

Umkomaas

DRP are completely ignorable.

patient_dream

Don't get sucked in by DRP with their little drawings, straight out of playschool

DRP always has been and always will be .. POWERLESS TIMEWASTERS

They are formally known as a JOKE in the first degree.

Even more of a JOKE is they are members of the BPA,  you know the outfit that lives in a dreamworld saying they are driving standards upwarda ??

POLPA is meaningless ... most judges take no notice anyway

IGNORE DRP ...... FEEL SORRY FOR THEM

HelpfulHints99

Many thanks for the rapid responses and reassurance @Umkomaas and @patient_dream .  I will ignore, sit tight and update this with any further communications in case it is helpful for others going through the same thing to see the letters and ongoing advice.  Thank you once again.  Kind regards.  J

HelpfulHints99

Hello to all.  

As promised, just posting the latest letter received as an update.  It's largely the same as the previous one with the inevitable ratcheting up of the pressure. 

I'll keep you posted on what happens next. 

Thanks as always 
J 

Trainerman

Hilarious. Looks a bit like the result of a competition between 11 year olds to produce a frightening letter. Standard rubbish, and with the added £70 too. Do not let the bar-stewards grind you down