Was a grandchild a beneficiary in grandparents will?

RAS

You need to take legal advice on the impact of the special guardianship order on your sister's right to inherit from her maternal family. Adopted children lose that right under intestacy and would not be recognised as a "child of mum" if a will specified that mum's children inherited.

Presumably you are entitled to inherit from the maternal family regardless if anyone dies intestate? Obviously you would be entitled if named.

I'd definitely ask cousin and mum what evidence they have for thinking your sister will inherit.

family355

RAS said:

You need to take legal advice on the impact of the special guardianship order on your sister's right to inherit from her maternal family. Adopted children lose that right under intestacy.

Thank you for this information, it is not something I knew. The local authority took mum to court to remove her parental responsibility, I was asked to take on that parental responsibility (Or sister would have been placed into care outside of the family) so we didn’t ‘need’ to consult a solicitor and no other potential implications for her were discussed. 

The questions I now need to direct to cousin are:
You said sister was in grandmothers will, how do you know? 

There is no will on record, I’ve looked, so do you know why this is? 

Your dad brought £300 round after grandmother had died, do you know why/where was this money from? 

Mum is now telling sister a similar thing... ‘sister’ was in grandmothers will. Why do you think she has said this when none of the maternal family has seen her? 

It doesn’t seem to ‘add up’ but could all be perfectly legit. I’m very mindful of (Any) discussions from myself or sister with mum. There are far more questions than answers about her, hence why I didn’t bother to delve too deep all those years ago with anyone. Sister has had a better life and is an amazing young woman having just completed her A levels and got a very good apprenticeship. That’s a good enough inroad to life that money cannot buy! 

Manxman_in_exile

RAS said:

You need to take legal advice on the impact of the special guardianship order on your sister's right to inherit from her maternal family. Adopted children lose that right under intestacy and would not be recognised as a "child of mum" if a will specified that mum's children inherited.
...

???   There's no question of an adoption is there?  The OP simply says she was appointed guardian of her half-sister by the family court.  

Flugelhorn

@RAS a special guardianship order doesn't break the link with the birth family 
"It is a more secure order than a residence order because a parent cannot apply to discharge it unless they have the permission of the court to do so, however it is less secure than an adoption order because it does not end the legal relationship between the child and his/her birth parents. The Adoption and Children Act 2002 introduced Special Guardianship and Special Guardianship Orders. "

RAS

Thanks Flugelhorn, with the OP's mention of adoption and special guardianship in the same post, I wasn't sure what the implications were.

What now confuses me is that if the sister is able to inherit from her maternal family, why is the OP also not a beneficiary? They would have the same status under intestacy?

OP, if the grandmother's property was held as a joint tenancy, it looks like tenants in common based on the restrictions, then it is not necessary for the survivor to obtain probate. As already pointed out, the will may well include a life interest trust which allows the second husband to live there until he dies or moves. So it is only on his death that the grandmother's half of the house would be divided between her children, as specified in the will. It's not uncommon for families to do the probate for both parties on the death of the second one.

And if grandmother had a small amount of cash in her own name when she died (rather than in a joint account with second husband), the decision may have been to give mum's portion to sister.  Whether this was mum's decision or one taken by the wider family, who knows. It may have been a way of saying, "We still think of you as family despite the court order?" Or "OP should be supported raising this child"

Whether or not sister is specifically mentioned in grandmother's will, you won't know until her second husband dies. Or maybe the family arranged a deed of variation allocating mum's portion (it would be a 1/3rd of a half unless specified otherwise) of the inheritance to her younger child? And mum wants sister to know now she's an adult?

You're back to asking cousin how she knows that sister is due to inherit; and as she may well also be eligible to inherit Uncle S's portion of grandmother's estate (or a share if depending on his will), she should understand the family dynamics.

The one thing to watch for is the second husband selling the house before he dies, as there are ways to get round the restriction.  

Spendless

RAS said:

Thanks Flugelhorn, with the OP's mention of adoption and special guardianship in the same post, I wasn't sure what the implications were.

What now confuses me is that if the sister is able to inherit from her maternal family, why is the OP also not a beneficiary? They would have the same status under intestacy?

OP, if the grandmother's property was held as a joint tenancy, it looks like tenants in common based on the restrictions, then it is not necessary for the survivor to obtain probate. As already pointed out, the will may well include a life interest trust which allows the second husband to live there until he dies or moves. So it is only on his death that the grandmother's half of the house would be divided between her children, as specified in the will. It's not uncommon for families to do the probate for both parties on the death of the second one.

And if grandmother had a small amount of cash in her own name when she died (rather than in a joint account with second husband), the decision may have been to give mum's portion to sister.  Whether this was mum's decision or one taken by the wider family, who knows. It may have been a way of saying, "We still think of you as family despite the court order?" Or "OP should be supported raising this child"

Whether or not sister is specifically mentioned in grandmother's will, you won't know until her second husband dies. Or maybe the family arranged a deed of variation allocating mum's portion (it would be a 1/3rd of a half unless specified otherwise) of the inheritance to her younger child? And mum wants sister to know now she's an adult?

You're back to asking cousin how she knows that sister is due to inherit; and as she may well also be eligible to inherit Uncle S's portion of grandmother's estate (or a share if depending on his will), she should understand the family dynamics.

The one thing to watch for is the second husband selling the house before he dies, as there are ways to get round the restriction.  

Because they're not talking about intestacy. They're talking about a will, where sister may have been named as a beneficiary but the OP wasn't.  Unless I've not grasped something? 

TBagpuss

It sounds as though step-grandfather probably has a life interest which likely means that your sister would not be entitled to her share from the house until he passes away or the house is sold for other reasons.  Probably probate should have been obtained when she died, but that doesn't always happen where the only significant asset is that house, and it is subject to a life interest. 

The SGO does not change the legal relationship with the birth family so would not affect your sister's right to inherit if she is named in her grandmother's will, (nor to inherit under intestacy when her/your mum passes. ) It's NOT adoption, so she won't be entitled to inherit from you as your child, unless you make a will - she would only inherit if there is no-one closer such as a spouse, parent or child,  and your estate goes to your sibling(s). (SGOs were brought in n part to avoid the need for familial adoptions, they are designed to give the child security without breaking the link between them and their birth parents/siblings - they are more like a Super-Residence Order than an Adoption order, as they let the SG override the parents where there is a conflict between them. 

You could try speaking to either Uncle J or Step-Grandfather, stress that you are not looking to make any kind of difficulty but you understand that your sister was a beneficiary but you have never seen a copy of the will, and would like to clarify whether or not it's correct.  

family355

Thank you all for your replies! 

@TBagpuss, Thank you for raising the point of my own will. Myself & husband do not have one. We also have 2 daughters and would absolutely want our assets to be equally split between the 3 of them when that time came. This is something I will now sort ASAP. 

I spoke with cousin yesterday, she said she has not seen grandmothers will but from conversations with her dad, Uncle S, she was informed that sister was a beneficiary in place of mum. To her knowledge sister was left ‘something’ but can only access this when she is 21 years old. She had no knowledge of the few hundred pounds Uncle S brought round. 

She was also informed sister was left mums share (1/3) of grandmothers half of the house. She then went onto say Uncle J ‘fell out’ with Husband 2/step grandfather as he wanted husband 2 to sell the house for his share and husband 2 would not do this. 

She will speak with her mum to see if she has had sight of the will. 

RAS

If Uncle S was an executor of grandmother's will, he may have a copy in his paperwork? Might be worth asking his family? And it's not unusual for surviving step-parents to want to stay in the house and the children to want to realise the assets ASAP.

family355

It may now be in cousins interest to have sight of the will too as her dads share may pass to her?