UPS asking me to pay 3000€ to get my parcel back!

bee91

Manxman_in_exile said:

But did French Customs say UPS themselves should reclaim the 3000?

The problem you've got is UPS have (apparently) paid French Customs 3000 on your behalf (or that of your friend). Understandably, UPS want that money back from someone.  If you cannot persuade them that they ought to be reclaiming the money from French Customs themselves, they will want it from you before they return your parcel - if they can find it.

French customs may be qualified to tell you that you cannot claim the 3000 back from them, but I don't think they will be qualified to say whether UPS can make you pay to get the parcel back - they aren't lawyers.

You need to persuade UPS to claim the money back from customs themselves.  If they refuse, ask them to explain why they refuse.  Tell them French customs have already confirmed you can't reclaim it because you didn't pay it in the first place (or whatever reason they gave).  If that doesn't work, only then would I consider suing UPS.  And where would you sue them?

Out of curiosity, what made you initially think that a medical device could be sent to France without any sort of import duty?  I'm genuinely curious, not being critical of you.

Well there should be no tax required on a parcel being sent back to the sender so UPS shouldn’t have even mentioned it.

To reply to your last question I’m french so regularly send parcels to friends and family in France and never had to pay any tax. Obviously with Brexit I thought things might have changed but checking online I didn’t find any clear information. I then did a simulation of sending it through UPS and it said £0 tax 

Sandtree

bee91 said:
 I then did a simulation of sending it through UPS and it said £0 tax 

The only tax UPS shows on its website is the VAT the sender would pay on the shipping service and courier services are exempt so it'll show no UK VAT.  Unless you are a large merchant wanting to give your customer fully landed costs then UPS wouldn't tell you what the destination country's taxes/duties are going to be... thats for the recipient to know and agree to before the parcel is sent to them.

bee91

Sandtree said:

bee91 said:
 I then did a simulation of sending it through UPS and it said £0 tax 

The only tax UPS shows on its website is the VAT the sender would pay on the shipping service and courier services are exempt so it'll show no UK VAT.  Unless you are a large merchant wanting to give your customer fully landed costs then UPS wouldn't tell you what the destination country's taxes/duties are going to be... thats for the recipient to know and agree to before the parcel is sent to them.

Ah right it was a bit misleading 

Manxman_in_exile

bee91 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

But did French Customs say UPS themselves should reclaim the 3000?

The problem you've got is UPS have (apparently) paid French Customs 3000 on your behalf (or that of your friend). Understandably, UPS want that money back from someone.  If you cannot persuade them that they ought to be reclaiming the money from French Customs themselves, they will want it from you before they return your parcel - if they can find it.

French customs may be qualified to tell you that you cannot claim the 3000 back from them, but I don't think they will be qualified to say whether UPS can make you pay to get the parcel back - they aren't lawyers.

You need to persuade UPS to claim the money back from customs themselves.  If they refuse, ask them to explain why they refuse.  Tell them French customs have already confirmed you can't reclaim it because you didn't pay it in the first place (or whatever reason they gave).  If that doesn't work, only then would I consider suing UPS.  And where would you sue them?

Out of curiosity, what made you initially think that a medical device could be sent to France without any sort of import duty?  I'm genuinely curious, not being critical of you.

Well there should be no tax required on a parcel being sent back to the sender so UPS shouldn’t have even mentioned it.
...

No.  I think you are missing the point (although I may be mistaken.  Apologies if I am). 

Try reading my post again...

I don't think this has anything to do with tax needing to be paid to get your parcel back to the UK.  It looks like UPS paid French customs 3000 when your parcel entered France.  That means UPS are 3000 out of pocket and they want that money back from someone.  

Now it would seem reasonable for UPS to claim that money back from French customs themselves, but they appear to be telling you that they can't (or perhaps won't) do that, and they want you to reimburse them before they return the parcel to you.  And then they seem to think you can reclaim the 3000 from French customs - even though French customs have told you that you can't do that.

So this is nothing to do with paying tax or customs duty to get the parcel back to you in the UK.  It's all about UPS wanting their 3000 back.  You need to persuade them that they need to claim it back from French customs themselves.  If this is to do with Brexit you will probably be banging your head against a brickwall as I suspect nobody knows how to resolve this.  But you need to sort it out with UPS.

bee91

Manxman_in_exile said:

bee91 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

But did French Customs say UPS themselves should reclaim the 3000?

The problem you've got is UPS have (apparently) paid French Customs 3000 on your behalf (or that of your friend). Understandably, UPS want that money back from someone.  If you cannot persuade them that they ought to be reclaiming the money from French Customs themselves, they will want it from you before they return your parcel - if they can find it.

French customs may be qualified to tell you that you cannot claim the 3000 back from them, but I don't think they will be qualified to say whether UPS can make you pay to get the parcel back - they aren't lawyers.

You need to persuade UPS to claim the money back from customs themselves.  If they refuse, ask them to explain why they refuse.  Tell them French customs have already confirmed you can't reclaim it because you didn't pay it in the first place (or whatever reason they gave).  If that doesn't work, only then would I consider suing UPS.  And where would you sue them?

Out of curiosity, what made you initially think that a medical device could be sent to France without any sort of import duty?  I'm genuinely curious, not being critical of you.

Well there should be no tax required on a parcel being sent back to the sender so UPS shouldn’t have even mentioned it.
...

No.  I think you are missing the point (although I may be mistaken.  Apologies if I am). 

Try reading my post again...

I don't think this has anything to do with tax needing to be paid to get your parcel back to the UK.  It looks like UPS paid French customs 3000 when your parcel entered France.  That means UPS are 3000 out of pocket and they want that money back from someone.  

Now it would seem reasonable for UPS to claim that money back from French customs themselves, but they appear to be telling you that they can't (or perhaps won't) do that, and they want you to reimburse them before they return the parcel to you.  And then they seem to think you can reclaim the 3000 from French customs - even though French customs have told you that you can't do that.

So this is nothing to do with paying tax or customs duty to get the parcel back to you in the UK.  It's all about UPS wanting their 3000 back.  You need to persuade them that they need to claim it back from French customs themselves.  If this is to do with Brexit you will probably be banging your head against a brickwall as I suspect nobody knows how to resolve this.  But you need to sort it out with UPS.

Ok I see what you mean… like you say I think it’s gonna be a headache to resolve 😓
The other issue is the fact that the parcel has been classed as abandoned so could have been destroyed and we wouldn’t get our money back which would be even worse as the package is worth a lot of money 😰 

bee91

Also I don’t know why this is not a more common issue… I know it was stupid on my part not to realise there would be so much tax to pay but I’m sure my friend in France isn’t the only person refusing a package and it being sent back to the sender 🤷‍♀️

Laz123

There are a few UK courier companies now refusing to send items to Europe because of the complexities due to Brexit. I always thought some items especially medical items were exempt from taxation when send from the UK to another country. I once send a petrol generator and wheelchair to Kenya which were exempt from duties. Maybe Africa if different to Europe or maybe the French are so miffed with the Brits about Brexit they like to take some form of revenge by being difficult. Some European countries are like that, I know Malta is one.

Perhaps UPS failed to properly explain the contents - you have to be very precise. What was the high value of the goods?

bee91

Laz123 said:

There are a few UK courier companies now refusing to send items to Europe because of the complexities due to Brexit. I always thought some items especially medical items were exempt from taxation when send from the UK to another country. I once send a petrol generator and wheelchair to Kenya which were exempt from duties. Maybe Africa if different to Europe or maybe the French are so miffed with the Brits about Brexit they like to take some form of revenge by being difficult. Some European countries are like that, I know Malta is one.

Perhaps UPS failed to properly explain the contents - you have to be very precise. What was the high value of the goods?

Yes I did think with brexit they might be making things difficult on purpose 🙄 and the french (and french authorities even more) can be particularly unhelpful (I can only say it because I’m french 😆).
I also heard somewhere medical devices were exempt from duties. I was as precise as I could be with the content explanation too. 

The value was roughly £10,000

visidigi

Maybe ask UPS what they can do to resubmit the entry  for clearance, which should see UPS refunded as the package is undelivered.

Someone at UPS wants to settle the import charge to handle it, but realistically they need to notify customs the package is undelivered and is to be returned, therefore should have nothing owing on it.

As to the fees levied this will have depended on the declaration you made and the harmonized codes under which clearance was performed  - if you didn't provide these then UPS will conclude best-fit when performing clearance.

UPS may in itself have a problem if the package is now in Germany, as now we aren't in the EU that package should only be in France or UK for storage, its only allowed to transit through other EU countries in the process of going to or from France/UK.

The number of threads here of late indicate UPS is having some real challenges with EU/post brexit clearance.

Manxman_in_exile

Not trying to be funny, but what do you intend to do with a £10,000 medical device which you bought as a gift for someone, but for which the recipient of the gift can't afford the French import duties?

If UPS stick their heels in (and I'm not sure what you can realistically do if they continue to be this intransigent) would it be a viable option for you simply to pay UPS the 3000 and have it re-delivered to your friend in France?  That way your friend gets the gift you always intended them to have - the only diffence being that it cost you £12,900 (or whatever) instead of £10,000?

I can see that may not be entirely satisfactory for you, but it might be the best outcome you can achieve if you can't persuade UPS to reclaim the duty themselves.  Better your friend gets it rather than not at all?