UPS asking me to pay 3000€ to get my parcel back!

bee91

So we’ve had an issue with UPS for the past 4 months. They are asking us for custom tax on an item that is being sent back. 

To give you a little bit of background we sent a medical device of high value to one of our friends who isn’t well. It was just after Brexit and it wasn’t clear how much tax would be asked, I couldn’t find a clear answer online (I feel stupid now but at the time it seemed really unclear!) but on the UPS website it indicated there would be no Tax to pay (we thought maybe because it was sent as a gift) so we sent it. We found out when it got to France that there were actually a high tax to pay (3000€) so our friend refused the parcel as she couldn’t afford to pay for it. There were actually 2 parcels sent as one (one of high value with the medical device and the other with the accessories was worth a lot less). The delivery driver told our friend she could have one of the parcel (the one of lesser value) but if she didn’t want to pay the tax would have to refuse the other one and it would be sent back. He explained it would automatically be sent back if refused by the receiver. We waited for our parcel to be sent back but after a week decided to call UPS to inquire about our parcel. We were then told the package was lost. It was then found a few days later but seemed to be stuck in Düsseldorf. We sent several letters of authorisation for it be sent back but never heard anything back. We made well over 20 phone calls to UPS but nobody seemed to know what to do. All we got told every time was that we would get called back but we never got any phone call. Many weeks and even months past so I then decided to write some letters to their offices in London and Brussels. We finally got a call from one of those letters. The lady was helpful but told us we would have to pay the 3000€ tax for the parcel to be sent back (if the parcel could be located as it was classed as abandoned!). 

We called customs to check this information and they assured us the tax doesn’t have to be paid when parcel is sent back to the sender. Indeed we have already paid VAT on it! They explained that UPS would get that tax back. However UPS still refuses to send us our parcel back unless we pay the tax. We feel helpless and feel as though we keep going round in circle! Now we’re just hoping our parcel hasn’t been destroyed because that’s what they do with parcels classed as “abandoned”. Anyone had a similar issue.

Lomast

Did you speak to UK customs or French? It will be France ups have paid the tax to on your behalf, you need to find out how it can be reclaimed from them

bee91

Lomast said:

Did you speak to UK customs or French? It will be France ups have paid the tax to on your behalf, you need to find out how it can be reclaimed from them

Ah right yes good point I’ll give them a call. I spoke to UK customs 

bee91

However if I am paying the tax to UPS I doubt french customs will refund me 

user1977

bee91 said:

However if I am paying the tax to UPS I doubt french customs will refund me 

Why? That's roughly how it works in the UK i.e. the courier pays HMRC, if you're due a refund then up to you to claim it from HMRC.

bee91

user1977 said:

bee91 said:

However if I am paying the tax to UPS I doubt french customs will refund me 

Why? That's roughly how it works in the UK i.e. the courier pays HMRC, if you're due a refund then up to you to claim it from HMRC.

Oh right I had read somewhere that HMRC would refund the one who made the payment, courier or individual, but that might be wrong. I’ll look into it.

user1977

bee91 said:

user1977 said:

bee91 said:

However if I am paying the tax to UPS I doubt french customs will refund me 

Why? That's roughly how it works in the UK i.e. the courier pays HMRC, if you're due a refund then up to you to claim it from HMRC.

Oh right I had read somewhere that HMRC would refund the one who made the payment, courier or individual, but that might be wrong. I’ll look into it.

It may of course be completely different in France anyway, I just wouldn't assume anything.

Manxman_in_exile

You need to clarify with UPS (whether London or Brussels I don't know) exactly what has happened.

It sounds like UPS paid 3000 to French customs when the package entered France.  When your friend refused it, that meant that French customs had 3000 of UPS's money and UPS want that money back.  In order for you to get your parcel back, UPS want you to repay them the 3000.  Then UPS are saying it's up to you to reclaim the 3000 from French customs yourself.

It may seem a bit daft that UPS want you to repay them rather than they reclaim it from French customs themselves, but I suspect they think they are more likely to get it from you (if you want your parcel back) than they are from French customs.

You need to find out how to reclaim from French customs.  And find out whether you should be doing that or UPS.  If you can't reclaim it, you need to go back to UPS.  (eg you may not be able to reclaim it because you never paid it in the first place - UPS did).

I wouldn't be surprised if (post-Brexit) neither UPS nor French Customs know the answer...

Obviously, before paying anything, make sure the package has been located and can be returned to you.

EDIT:  I don't think that what HMRC would do in a similar situation here necessarily has any bearing or relevance on how Fench customs deal with it

bee91

Manxman_in_exile said:

You need to clarify with UPS (whether London or Brussels I don't know) exactly what has happened.

It sounds like UPS paid 3000 to French customs when the package entered France.  When your friend refused it, that meant that French customs had 3000 of UPS's money and UPS want that money back.  In order for you to get your parcel back, UPS want you to repay them the 3000.  Then UPS are saying it's up to you to reclaim the 3000 from French customs yourself.

It may seem a bit daft that UPS want you to repay them rather than they reclaim it from French customs themselves, but I suspect they think they are more likely to get it from you (if you want your parcel back) than they are from French customs.

You need to find out how to reclaim from French customs.  And find out whether you should be doing that or UPS.  If you can't reclaim it, you need to go back to UPS.  (eg you may not be able to reclaim it because you never paid it in the first place - UPS did).

I wouldn't be surprised if (post-Brexit) neither UPS nor French Customs know the answer...

Obviously, before paying anything, make sure the package has been located and can be returned to you.

EDIT:  I don't think that what HMRC would do in a similar situation here necessarily has any bearing or relevance on how Fench customs deal with it

Thanks for your reply yes I think you’re right in what you say. I can imagine it being a hassle to get the money back from the french customs 😓 but I’ll definitely call them to find out. 

bee91

So just a little update I spoke to the french customs and they said the same as the UK customs, I shouldn’t have to pay any tax to get my parcel back. They wouldn’t refund me and they advised me strongly not pay it. They suggested to take legal actions against UPS if they won’t send my parcel back

Manxman_in_exile

But did French Customs say UPS themselves should reclaim the 3000?

The problem you've got is UPS have (apparently) paid French Customs 3000 on your behalf (or that of your friend). Understandably, UPS want that money back from someone.  If you cannot persuade them that they ought to be reclaiming the money from French Customs themselves, they will want it from you before they return your parcel - if they can find it.

French customs may be qualified to tell you that you cannot claim the 3000 back from them, but I don't think they will be qualified to say whether UPS can make you pay to get the parcel back - they aren't lawyers.

You need to persuade UPS to claim the money back from customs themselves.  If they refuse, ask them to explain why they refuse.  Tell them French customs have already confirmed you can't reclaim it because you didn't pay it in the first place (or whatever reason they gave).  If that doesn't work, only then would I consider suing UPS.  And where would you sue them?

Out of curiosity, what made you initially think that a medical device could be sent to France without any sort of import duty?  I'm genuinely curious, not being critical of you.