Cash for keys

FreshFruit

Norman_Castle said:

FreshFruit said:

Ive got a situation on my hands. We have a tenant who has been with us for years but unfortunately their mental health has took a turn for the worst and we have had the following issues; 

We got the relevant social services to help the situation (all council), initially they said that they would do an eviction and foreclose the property [seize it and offer it for sale?] (due to antisocial behaviour). They never followed up on this and instead we have had the council tell us that the property is not suitable to live in. . 

The council (who I thought were on our side) has threatened to serve the landlord with a notice to rectify the property or face a £30,000 fine.

We're in a cache [catch] 22 and the council aren't helping, the landlord is tempted to auction the property and just get rid, not sure if anyone has any advice as we could sure use some.

Who is "we"? Are you a letting agent? If so you seem very unprofessional needing to ask advice on a money saving site targetting the general public.
If the property is uninhabitable ask the council to rehouse the tenant. Would being uninhabitable with a landlord unwilling or unable to fund the repairs make eviction easier or cheaper?

Everyone,

I felt I made the situation quite clear.

Bad tenant, council involved, tenant destroying property and refusing access whilst the council also threaten us with notices to fix the place. 

I was hoping that somebody has had a similar experience (either auctioning a property w a bad tenant, evicting a bad tenant or cash for keys) and could offer some advice.

I did not expect to have to explain the value of the property, why I know the tenant was good in the past, who the landlord is, who I am in relation to the landlord, why do I know what the council says, the value of the estate and the other irrelevant questions I've been bombarded with. Especially those relating to the inheritance, its irrelevant, if it was relevant I would have included it in the OP. 

And no, I'm not an estate agent, thanks for the assumption & insults, though. 

And apparently a bad tenant brings the value of the property to 0 and evictions cost £5,000+.

Maybe it's best we let this one die. 

AdrianC

Let's put it this way...

Would YOU buy a property with a tenant that's trashed the place, and with the council insisting on £30k of work?
No, I wouldn't, eiher.

So while it may be worth £90k in good nick and with vacant possession, it's not worth £90k in good nick and with a sitting tenant... and it's DEFINITELY not worth £90k in THIS condition with THIS tenant...

No, it's not worth £0. But it's definitely not worth £85k...

With vacant possession, you may well find surprisingly little hit to the value, even in this condition - somebody who watches too much daytime TV will leap at a project. BUT they won't want it with a liability of a tenant.

So paying your tenant off is likely to lead to the best return. And, yes, £5k is a chunk of money - but the executor of the estate has a portfolio of properties to deal with... Is there really not £5k in cash within the estate? It's a business decision. Invest to get a return.

FreshFruit

AdrianC said:

Let's put it this way...

Would YOU buy a property with a tenant that's trashed the place, and with the council insisting on £30k of work?
No, I wouldn't, eiher.

So while it may be worth £90k in good nick and with vacant possession, it's not worth £90k in good nick and with a sitting tenant... and it's DEFINITELY not worth £90k in THIS condition with THIS tenant...

No, it's not worth £0. But it's definitely not worth £85k...

With vacant possession, you may well find surprisingly little hit to the value, even in this condition - somebody who watches too much daytime TV will leap at a project. BUT they won't want it with a liability of a tenant.

So paying your tenant off is likely to lead to the best return. And, yes, £5k is a chunk of money - but the executor of the estate has a portfolio of properties to deal with... Is there really not £5k in cash within the estate? It's a business decision. Invest to get a return.

30k is a threatened fine which assumes we refuse to fix the boiler. Nothing official yet. And it is not the renovation cost.  

That is the best return, assuming the eviction wouldn't be cheaper, or the value of the property isnt more than -5k w a problem tenant at auction.  

Thanks to those who gave constructive input I think I have all I need. 

[Deleted User]

No idea why the person acting as the landlord (the executor?) had the council involved in the first place. Assuming this is England then a Section 8 Ground 7a or Ground 14 could have been served. The former only required 4 weeks (if periodic) or 1 month (if fixed term) notice and with the latter the landlord could have applied to court immediately. Instead the landlord now faces having to go to court just to be able to enter the property. 

I think you can forget cash for keys. The tenant is not going to make themselves intentionally homeless for £5k. Where would they move to? Who is going to let a property to a tenant like this? 

Grumpy_chap

FreshFruit said:

Everyone,

I felt I made the situation quite clear.

Bad tenant, council involved, tenant destroying property and refusing access whilst the council also threaten us with notices to fix the place. 

I was hoping that somebody has had a similar experience (either auctioning a property w a bad tenant, evicting a bad tenant or cash for keys) and could offer some advice.

I did not expect to have to explain the value of the property, why I know the tenant was good in the past, who the landlord is, who I am in relation to the landlord, why do I know what the council says, the value of the estate and the other irrelevant questions I've been bombarded with. Especially those relating to the inheritance, its irrelevant, if it was relevant I would have included it in the OP. 

And no, I'm not an estate agent, thanks for the assumption & insults, though. 

And apparently a bad tenant brings the value of the property to 0 and evictions cost £5,000+.

Maybe it's best we let this one die. 

I really don't see that anyone has insulted you in their responses, though you may not have received the answers you wished for. 

Unfortunately, the OP was confusing at first read, so people asked for clarification / explanation. 

This is an unusual case with the Executors still dealing with the Estate of "X" several years following death.  It is outside the question of the thread, but I would strongly recommend that the Executors seek to wind up the Estate as soon as practical as Administering the Estate for a prolonged period will only get more difficult and more complex.

Anyway, the LL had three options at the outsey:

• Cash-4-Keys at £5k, which does seem to be the simplest route (assuming it can be completed at that, which may not be the case a LoL stated).
• Eviction, which you think will be less than £5k cost and quick.  Even if the £cost is less than £5k, the time and emotional expenditure will be considerable
• Sell the property with the sitting problem tenant, which you think the value of the property is not diminished by more than £5k with the sitting problem tenant.

You seem to have started at the OP with the decision to sell the property with the problem tenant.
You still seem decided on this route forwards and now berating the contributors to the thread for not agreeing unreservedly that this is the correct way to proceed.
Given the mind is set, the best advice to the Executors is to proceed as planned and then get the whole Estate of "X" resolved to avoid future issues affecting the Estate.  Managing the Estate for the ever-longer term will only ever get more complex and the Executors need to have consideration that at some point in the future the beneficiaries will pass and if this Estate is not resolved, then resolving the Estate of the beneficiaries will become impossible.

I see the OP has now thrown the toys out of the pram and deleted the OP...

[Deleted User]

Et voilà

Ive got a situation on my hands. We have a tenant who has been with us for years but unfortunately their mental health has took a turn for the worst and we have had the following issues; 

- Noise complaints

- Complaints about rubbish outside the house (sofas, chairs, big items)
- property neglected and full of junk

We got the relevant social services to help the situation (all council), initially they said that they would do an eviction and foreclose the property (due to antisocial behaviour). They never followed up on this and instead we have had the council tell us that the property is not suitable to live in. I.e. tenant claims the boiler doesn't work, walls damaged, floor damaged (long story short, tenant disconnected the gas 4years ago as they claimed they had no use and the other issues are due to tenant neglect and hording) 


Issue is, the tenant dislikes the landlord and will not let them near the property, we sent a gas engineer round under the orders of the council only to find that there is a huge debt on the meter (tenant refuses to pay this) and the gas is still disconnected, also the property was so cluttered that the engineer said it isn't possible to work inside the property. 

The council (who I thought were on our side) has threatened to serve the landlord with a notice to rectify the property or face a £30,000 fine. 

We've explained that the tenant doesn't allow us access, the property is not suitable to work in and all the damages are through tenant neglect.
They don't care. 

We offered the tenant a cash for keys deal, the tenant asked for a sum of over £5,000 (which is rediculous) we offered £1,000 which they dismissed as too little. 

We have a couple options... 

- Go through the legal eviction route

- increase the cash for keys offer
- sell the house via auction with the tenant in situ

We're in a cache 22 and the council aren't helping, the landlord is tempted to auction the property and just get rid, not sure if anyone has any advice as we could sure use some. 

Grumpy_chap

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Et voilà

Ive got a situation on my hands. We have a tenant who has been with us for years but unfortunately their mental health has took a turn for the worst and we have had the following issues; 

- Noise complaints

- Complaints about rubbish outside the house (sofas, chairs, big items)
- property neglected and full of junk

We got the relevant social services to help the situation (all council), initially they said that they would do an eviction and foreclose the property (due to antisocial behaviour). They never followed up on this and instead we have had the council tell us that the property is not suitable to live in. I.e. tenant claims the boiler doesn't work, walls damaged, floor damaged (long story short, tenant disconnected the gas 4years ago as they claimed they had no use and the other issues are due to tenant neglect and hording) 


Issue is, the tenant dislikes the landlord and will not let them near the property, we sent a gas engineer round under the orders of the council only to find that there is a huge debt on the meter (tenant refuses to pay this) and the gas is still disconnected, also the property was so cluttered that the engineer said it isn't possible to work inside the property. 

The council (who I thought were on our side) has threatened to serve the landlord with a notice to rectify the property or face a £30,000 fine. 

We've explained that the tenant doesn't allow us access, the property is not suitable to work in and all the damages are through tenant neglect.
They don't care. 

We offered the tenant a cash for keys deal, the tenant asked for a sum of over £5,000 (which is rediculous) we offered £1,000 which they dismissed as too little. 

We have a couple options... 

- Go through the legal eviction route

- increase the cash for keys offer
- sell the house via auction with the tenant in situ

We're in a cache 22 and the council aren't helping, the landlord is tempted to auction the property and just get rid, not sure if anyone has any advice as we could sure use some. 

Thanks.  I don't know how you do that, but thanks.🙂

AdrianC

Grumpy_chap said:

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Et voilà

Ive got a situation on my hands. We have a tenant who has been with us for years but unfortunately their mental health has took a turn for the worst and we have had the following issues; 

- Noise complaints

- Complaints about rubbish outside the house (sofas, chairs, big items)
- property neglected and full of junk

We got the relevant social services to help the situation (all council), initially they said that they would do an eviction and foreclose the property (due to antisocial behaviour). They never followed up on this and instead we have had the council tell us that the property is not suitable to live in. I.e. tenant claims the boiler doesn't work, walls damaged, floor damaged (long story short, tenant disconnected the gas 4years ago as they claimed they had no use and the other issues are due to tenant neglect and hording) 


Issue is, the tenant dislikes the landlord and will not let them near the property, we sent a gas engineer round under the orders of the council only to find that there is a huge debt on the meter (tenant refuses to pay this) and the gas is still disconnected, also the property was so cluttered that the engineer said it isn't possible to work inside the property. 

The council (who I thought were on our side) has threatened to serve the landlord with a notice to rectify the property or face a £30,000 fine. 

We've explained that the tenant doesn't allow us access, the property is not suitable to work in and all the damages are through tenant neglect.
They don't care. 

We offered the tenant a cash for keys deal, the tenant asked for a sum of over £5,000 (which is rediculous) we offered £1,000 which they dismissed as too little. 

We have a couple options... 

- Go through the legal eviction route

- increase the cash for keys offer
- sell the house via auction with the tenant in situ

We're in a cache 22 and the council aren't helping, the landlord is tempted to auction the property and just get rid, not sure if anyone has any advice as we could sure use some. 

Thanks.  I don't know how you do that, but thanks.🙂

The joys of google's cache.

user1977

AdrianC said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Et voilà

Ive got a situation on my hands. We have a tenant who has been with us for years but unfortunately their mental health has took a turn for the worst and we have had the following issues; 

- Noise complaints

- Complaints about rubbish outside the house (sofas, chairs, big items)
- property neglected and full of junk

We got the relevant social services to help the situation (all council), initially they said that they would do an eviction and foreclose the property (due to antisocial behaviour). They never followed up on this and instead we have had the council tell us that the property is not suitable to live in. I.e. tenant claims the boiler doesn't work, walls damaged, floor damaged (long story short, tenant disconnected the gas 4years ago as they claimed they had no use and the other issues are due to tenant neglect and hording) 


Issue is, the tenant dislikes the landlord and will not let them near the property, we sent a gas engineer round under the orders of the council only to find that there is a huge debt on the meter (tenant refuses to pay this) and the gas is still disconnected, also the property was so cluttered that the engineer said it isn't possible to work inside the property. 

The council (who I thought were on our side) has threatened to serve the landlord with a notice to rectify the property or face a £30,000 fine. 

We've explained that the tenant doesn't allow us access, the property is not suitable to work in and all the damages are through tenant neglect.
They don't care. 

We offered the tenant a cash for keys deal, the tenant asked for a sum of over £5,000 (which is rediculous) we offered £1,000 which they dismissed as too little. 

We have a couple options... 

- Go through the legal eviction route

- increase the cash for keys offer
- sell the house via auction with the tenant in situ

We're in a cache 22 and the council aren't helping, the landlord is tempted to auction the property and just get rid, not sure if anyone has any advice as we could sure use some. 

Thanks.  I don't know how you do that, but thanks.🙂

The joys of google's cache.

Ah yes, the famous Cache 22.

Grumpy_chap

AdrianC said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Et voilà

Ive got a situation on my hands. We have a tenant who has been with us for years but unfortunately their mental health has took a turn for the worst and we have had the following issues; 

- Noise complaints

- Complaints about rubbish outside the house (sofas, chairs, big items)
- property neglected and full of junk

We got the relevant social services to help the situation (all council), initially they said that they would do an eviction and foreclose the property (due to antisocial behaviour). They never followed up on this and instead we have had the council tell us that the property is not suitable to live in. I.e. tenant claims the boiler doesn't work, walls damaged, floor damaged (long story short, tenant disconnected the gas 4years ago as they claimed they had no use and the other issues are due to tenant neglect and hording) 


Issue is, the tenant dislikes the landlord and will not let them near the property, we sent a gas engineer round under the orders of the council only to find that there is a huge debt on the meter (tenant refuses to pay this) and the gas is still disconnected, also the property was so cluttered that the engineer said it isn't possible to work inside the property. 

The council (who I thought were on our side) has threatened to serve the landlord with a notice to rectify the property or face a £30,000 fine. 

We've explained that the tenant doesn't allow us access, the property is not suitable to work in and all the damages are through tenant neglect.
They don't care. 

We offered the tenant a cash for keys deal, the tenant asked for a sum of over £5,000 (which is rediculous) we offered £1,000 which they dismissed as too little. 

We have a couple options... 

- Go through the legal eviction route

- increase the cash for keys offer
- sell the house via auction with the tenant in situ

We're in a cache 22 and the council aren't helping, the landlord is tempted to auction the property and just get rid, not sure if anyone has any advice as we could sure use some. 

Thanks.  I don't know how you do that, but thanks.🙂

The joys of google's cache.

Thanks, but I still don't know how that works.
Perhaps I got confused between Cache 22, Cashed pages and Catch-4-Keys