Paypal claim in my favour, now seller threatening legal action for "over-refund"

JetpackVelociraptor

fred247 said:...

I felt justified to have been refunded in full (refund of returned goods + incurred shipping costs + compensation for lost time / inconvenience of situation and sourcing alternative parts). I also reflected that the "outstanding goods" may also be counterfeit and potentially dangerous, and have set them aside in their original packaging with nil intent to use.

...

12. The Seller declined to provide a returns label, and has now declared that "PayPal were not party to the contract, and that my refund has no legal basis." They are threatening to pursue me for the unpaid invoice, plus any legal fees and interest for overdue invoice.

I can see this from both sides, however, I believe that I've followed the correct PayPal process (in which the seller has declined to engage), the error for the "over-refund" is not of my fault, and I've been fair in offering the seller a way of recovering their goods. I feel aggrieved that I should be liable for the approx. £100 invoice, as this would mean I'm out of pocket for the return shipping fee (£60) plus cost of genuine parts to replace those I now distrust to be authentic that I'll likely destroy.

Where do I stand ?

I don't know German consumer law, but I don't think it's that different to UK law in terms of returns, refunds etc.

You should not be left out of pocket for the cost of returning the faulty item. You should therefore deduct the cost of the return postage from the remaining balance before you pay it. You should however pay them what you owe them for the other, non-faulty parts, and send/email them a copy of your receipt for the return postage cost.

You do not have proof that the goods are counterfeit, and therefore have no reason to think that the other items are faulty. They're not responsible for the costs you incurred in purchasing other parts from somewhere else.

Unless you are within the first 14 days of receiving the goods, in which case you could return the rest of the order at your own cost as a change of mind, they don't have to accept a return or arrange collection of the other items. They are entitled to pursue you for the cost of the rest of the order, minus the return delivery charge on the faulty item.

Not all ADR decisions are legally binding, and I'm not certain PayPal counts as ADR as they are  the company processing the payment.

unholyangel

JetpackVelociraptor said:

fred247 said:...

I felt justified to have been refunded in full (refund of returned goods + incurred shipping costs + compensation for lost time / inconvenience of situation and sourcing alternative parts). I also reflected that the "outstanding goods" may also be counterfeit and potentially dangerous, and have set them aside in their original packaging with nil intent to use.

...

12. The Seller declined to provide a returns label, and has now declared that "PayPal were not party to the contract, and that my refund has no legal basis." They are threatening to pursue me for the unpaid invoice, plus any legal fees and interest for overdue invoice.

I can see this from both sides, however, I believe that I've followed the correct PayPal process (in which the seller has declined to engage), the error for the "over-refund" is not of my fault, and I've been fair in offering the seller a way of recovering their goods. I feel aggrieved that I should be liable for the approx. £100 invoice, as this would mean I'm out of pocket for the return shipping fee (£60) plus cost of genuine parts to replace those I now distrust to be authentic that I'll likely destroy.

Where do I stand ?

I don't know German consumer law, but I don't think it's that different to UK law in terms of returns, refunds etc.

You should not be left out of pocket for the cost of returning the faulty item. You should therefore deduct the cost of the return postage from the remaining balance before you pay it. You should however pay them what you owe them for the other, non-faulty parts, and send/email them a copy of your receipt for the return postage cost.

You do not have proof that the goods are counterfeit, and therefore have no reason to think that the other items are faulty. They're not responsible for the costs you incurred in purchasing other parts from somewhere else.

Unless you are within the first 14 days of receiving the goods, in which case you could return the rest of the order at your own cost as a change of mind, they don't have to accept a return or arrange collection of the other items. They are entitled to pursue you for the cost of the rest of the order, minus the return delivery charge on the faulty item.

Not all ADR decisions are legally binding, and I'm not certain PayPal counts as ADR as they are  the company processing the payment.

If OP has the right to reject some of the goods as they do not conform to contract, they have the right to reject all of the goods (even those that conform). 

Also, I'm not sure what you think ADR is, but it's simply any way of resolving a dispute other than taking it to court and obtaining judgement. ADR can come in many different forms. 

fred247

unholyangel said:

JetpackVelociraptor said:

fred247 said:...

I felt justified to have been refunded in full (refund of returned goods + incurred shipping costs + compensation for lost time / inconvenience of situation and sourcing alternative parts). I also reflected that the "outstanding goods" may also be counterfeit and potentially dangerous, and have set them aside in their original packaging with nil intent to use.

...

12. The Seller declined to provide a returns label, and has now declared that "PayPal were not party to the contract, and that my refund has no legal basis." They are threatening to pursue me for the unpaid invoice, plus any legal fees and interest for overdue invoice.

I can see this from both sides, however, I believe that I've followed the correct PayPal process (in which the seller has declined to engage), the error for the "over-refund" is not of my fault, and I've been fair in offering the seller a way of recovering their goods. I feel aggrieved that I should be liable for the approx. £100 invoice, as this would mean I'm out of pocket for the return shipping fee (£60) plus cost of genuine parts to replace those I now distrust to be authentic that I'll likely destroy.

Where do I stand ?

I don't know German consumer law, but I don't think it's that different to UK law in terms of returns, refunds etc.

You should not be left out of pocket for the cost of returning the faulty item. You should therefore deduct the cost of the return postage from the remaining balance before you pay it. You should however pay them what you owe them for the other, non-faulty parts, and send/email them a copy of your receipt for the return postage cost.

You do not have proof that the goods are counterfeit, and therefore have no reason to think that the other items are faulty. They're not responsible for the costs you incurred in purchasing other parts from somewhere else.

Unless you are within the first 14 days of receiving the goods, in which case you could return the rest of the order at your own cost as a change of mind, they don't have to accept a return or arrange collection of the other items. They are entitled to pursue you for the cost of the rest of the order, minus the return delivery charge on the faulty item.

Not all ADR decisions are legally binding, and I'm not certain PayPal counts as ADR as they are  the company processing the payment.

If OP has the right to reject some of the goods as they do not conform to contract, they have the right to reject all of the goods (even those that conform). 

Also, I'm not sure what you think ADR is, but it's simply any way of resolving a dispute other than taking it to court and obtaining judgement. ADR can come in many different forms. 

This is the exact reason I no longer want to retain the goods; I have lost faith in the quality of the other goods from them due to my experience of their behaviours, particularly as parts will be fitted to a road going vehicle.

fred247

Thanks everyone for your contributions. Interesting to see that there are different views and no clear and definitive answer.