American Express Repayment Protection Plan - is is not PPI?

mal2021

I so submitted a claim via a PPI claims handed before the PPI deadline in 2019 for Amex Repayment Protection Plan. They came back to me in July 2020 confirming no refund was due. However, I took a snapshot of the RPI amount on my lthen latest statement on phone and emailed them asking them to investigate. I chased them up today having had no response only to be told that my case had been closed as no refund was due.

Can anyone please confirm if RPI on Amex credit card is the same as PPI and should therefore be due a refund?

I have searched the forums here and Googled the exact term, but I can’t see anything definitive that aligns my RPI with PPI.

Many thanks in advance.

[Deleted User]

If they closed your case in June 2020 then you are outside the 6 month deadline to refer to the FOS and the case is closed. Question would be why you were rejected and what they said

Whether Repayment Protection is PPI or not (seems unlikely they would still be doing it now) no-one is due a refund, PPI existing isn't a problem, only if it was miss-sold. The comment thread below suggests the program was an opt-in option people chose when applying however, not something that was miss-sold as no-one sold it to you.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4324481/american-express-claiming-ppi-i-have-a-no-claim-answer-from-them

That said, complaining in July last year should at the least have triggered them to cancel it so you could ask why they didn't do that and why they kept charging you

mal2021

Thanks for your comments farfetch.
couple of point tho:
1 I did not sign up for an Amex online. I filled out a form in 2003 at a Download festival, so it wasn’t something I necessarily opted into of my own accord. I think the presence of an individual in this case might warrant misspelling.
2 I submitted my details to the claims handler for this and another loan with another provider. Upon chasing up in 2019, I found that the handler had failed to forward on my authorisation to deal between Amex and them and so left it with the handler to resolve. In July 2020, I emailed the handler the contrary (imho) evidence and still have that email, with no reply to date and no form of digital documentation on their portal, so arguably, they did not advise me of the case closure until today. The last correspondence on said portal is dated 30 June 2020, which I responded to about a week later in July the same year.

Does this change your views? And hopefully I’m not coming across in an adversarial or challenging tone, it’s not my intent.

[Deleted User]

What complaint reason did the claims company submit?

It's not clear from your whether you made a valid complaint, and if you did, whether the CMC submitted it before the deadline.

brettcta

Have you actually discussed with Amex or are you just going off what the CMC are telling you? If it’s the latter, there’s a very good chance they didn’t submit it prior to the deadline.

We had thousands where the CMC’s DSAR was submitted prior to auto-conversion and were then either not followed up with a complaint before the deadline or they didn’t submit a complaint at all but then sent in all manner of chaser letters trying to make it look like it was our fault.

[Deleted User]

mal2021 said:

Thanks for your comments farfetch.
couple of point tho:
1 I did not sign up for an Amex online. I filled out a form in 2003 at a Download festival, so it wasn’t something I necessarily opted into of my own accord. I think the presence of an individual in this case might warrant misspelling.
2 I submitted my details to the claims handler for this and another loan with another provider. Upon chasing up in 2019, I found that the handler had failed to forward on my authorisation to deal between Amex and them and so left it with the handler to resolve. In July 2020, I emailed the handler the contrary (imho) evidence and still have that email, with no reply to date and no form of digital documentation on their portal, so arguably, they did not advise me of the case closure until today. The last correspondence on said portal is dated 30 June 2020, which I responded to about a week later in July the same year.

Does this change your views? And hopefully I’m not coming across in an adversarial or challenging tone, it’s not my intent.

1) Online or a paper form is irrelevant if you tick a box to say you wanted it. Online actually has a bit more weight as some firms used opt-out which is generally considered miss-selling but if there is a paper form you ticked and signed to say you want it, in the absence of evidence of undue selling techniques i.e. you can't prove anything was untoward about a conversation 18 years ago, then the lender (and FOS) have to consider the facts only. To me, ticking a box and signing it says you wanted it, while I sympathise that you could well have been pushed into it by a salesman, the evidence is that you chose it thus were not miss-sold, but rather, miss-bought.
2) Sounds like a complaint is due to the claims firm for not dealing with the job properly. What "portal" are you talking about? A claims management one? If so, that's entirely irrelevant to the situation with Amex if the CMC did not send them any data. If Amex have closed the case and it's 6 months on, then your complaint is over. That the CMC didn't let you know or didn't send the case to the FOS is moot as Amex would simply have assumed you accepted the decision and once the 6 months referral period is up, closed the case.
3) Your evidence, as you have said on here, is that you paid it. Not that it was miss-sold. What other evidence do you have to support miss-selling?

dunstonh

2 I submitted my details to the claims handler for this and another loan with another provider. Upon chasing up in 2019, I found that the handler had failed to forward on my authorisation to deal between Amex and them and so left it with the handler to resolve. In July 2020, I emailed the handler the contrary (imho) evidence and still have that email, with no reply to date and no form of digital documentation on their portal, so arguably, they did not advise me of the case closure until today. The last correspondence on said portal is dated 30 June 2020, which I responded to about a week later in July the same year.

After the complaint was initially made, did you receive written acknowledgement from Amex confirming your complaint, recapping what they believe your complaint to be and giving details of the Financial Ombudsman Service? - all firms are required to do this upon receipt of the complaint.  I am wondering if the complaint was actually submitted.

As it stands, and we don't have a lot to go on, it would either appear no complaint was submitted in the first place or if it was, it was rejected and you recontacted them after the 6 month deadline.     There are suggestions in your comments that the CMC may not have fulfilled its duties but as I said, not a lot to go on.

mal2021

Deleted_User said:

What complaint reason did the claims company submit?

It's not clear from your whether you made a valid complaint, and if you did, whether the CMC submitted it before the deadline.

I am not sure. I took the lazy route and provided details to the CMC to handle.
I don't think they did submit it before the deadline, despite me providing them with authority to engage with Amex months before the deadline. I only chased up after a while as having spoken to them (I don't have teh date) subsequent to the deadline, they were under the impression they were waiting for authority from me. When I corrected them, they said they would resolve. The next letter regarding Amex came in July 2020, saying Amex had denied.Deleted_User said:

mal2021 said:

Thanks for your comments farfetch.
couple of point tho:
1 I did not sign up for an Amex online. I filled out a form in 2003 at a Download festival, so it wasn’t something I necessarily opted into of my own accord. I think the presence of an individual in this case might warrant misspelling.
2 I submitted my details to the claims handler for this and another loan with another provider. Upon chasing up in 2019, I found that the handler had failed to forward on my authorisation to deal between Amex and them and so left it with the handler to resolve. In July 2020, I emailed the handler the contrary (imho) evidence and still have that email, with no reply to date and no form of digital documentation on their portal, so arguably, they did not advise me of the case closure until today. The last correspondence on said portal is dated 30 June 2020, which I responded to about a week later in July the same year.

Does this change your views? And hopefully I’m not coming across in an adversarial or challenging tone, it’s not my intent.

1) Online or a paper form is irrelevant if you tick a box to say you wanted it. Online actually has a bit more weight as some firms used opt-out which is generally considered miss-selling but if there is a paper form you ticked and signed to say you want it, in the absence of evidence of undue selling techniques i.e. you can't prove anything was untoward about a conversation 18 years ago, then the lender (and FOS) have to consider the facts only. To me, ticking a box and signing it says you wanted it, while I sympathise that you could well have been pushed into it by a salesman, the evidence is that you chose it thus were not miss-sold, but rather, miss-bought.
2) Sounds like a complaint is due to the claims firm for not dealing with the job properly. What "portal" are you talking about? A claims management one? If so, that's entirely irrelevant to the situation with Amex if the CMC did not send them any data. If Amex have closed the case and it's 6 months on, then your complaint is over. That the CMC didn't let you know or didn't send the case to the FOS is moot as Amex would simply have assumed you accepted the decision and once the 6 months referral period is up, closed the case.
3) Your evidence, as you have said on here, is that you paid it. Not that it was miss-sold. What other evidence do you have to support miss-selling?

1. Fair comments. I was under the mistaken impression things were much broader. I may well have ticked the box, I can't honestly recall being ~18 years ago whether it was suggested to me or not, so perhaps a mistake of youth as my location at the time suggests. I do remember I wasn't drinking at the time, but that's more anecdotal than evidentiary!
2 Yes, a CMC claims management one. I think I need to contact both the CMC and Amex to understand what actually happened between them, maybe a DPA request of my records since I engaged with the CMC. Whether the complaint was made is a good point made by dunstonh. I do not recall receiving a complaint acknowledgement letter from Amex. Amex may well have assumed such. The only thing I recall receiving from the CMC wrt Amex was that they had (subsequently to finding that I had provided authority prior to the deadline) made a request for information.

dunstonh said:

2 I submitted my details to the claims handler for this and another loan with another provider. Upon chasing up in 2019, I found that the handler had failed to forward on my authorisation to deal between Amex and them and so left it with the handler to resolve. In July 2020, I emailed the handler the contrary (imho) evidence and still have that email, with no reply to date and no form of digital documentation on their portal, so arguably, they did not advise me of the case closure until today. The last correspondence on said portal is dated 30 June 2020, which I responded to about a week later in July the same year.

After the complaint was initially made, did you receive written acknowledgement from Amex confirming your complaint, recapping what they believe your complaint to be and giving details of the Financial Ombudsman Service? - all firms are required to do this upon receipt of the complaint.  I am wondering if the complaint was actually submitted.

As it stands, and we don't have a lot to go on, it would either appear no complaint was submitted in the first place or if it was, it was rejected and you recontacted them after the 6 month deadline.     There are suggestions in your comments that the CMC may not have fulfilled its duties but as I said, not a lot to go on.

As said above in response to farfetch, I am not certain a complaint was made on my behalf as I do not recall receiving a complaint acknowledgement from Amex. I will speak with both parties and see what they can provide to understand this situation more clearly.

Thank you all for your comments, suggestions and questions and apologies for the vagaries in my comments. I will return with a more definite timeline at some point in the near future hopefully.

mal2021

brettcta said:

Have you actually discussed with Amex or are you just going off what the CMC are telling you? If it’s the latter, there’s a very good chance they didn’t submit it prior to the deadline.

We had thousands where the CMC’s DSAR was submitted prior to auto-conversion and were then either not followed up with a complaint before the deadline or they didn’t submit a complaint at all but then sent in all manner of chaser letters trying to make it look like it was our fault.

I have not discussed my claim with Amex. I did call them to ask them to remove the Repayment Protection after providing the evidence to the CMC in July 2020. Having just looked at my statements, it appears I was paying this until April this year, albeit only 3 pence on that statement. 

I'll have to do some digging and return to this forum better documented I think, but thank you for your comments

[Deleted User]

With 2, you can send a SAR but it would be a bit pointless, you'd do better checking with Amex to confirm they did get the complaint and what correspondence they had from the CMC and then complain to the CMC about their poor service. Even if you were / were not miss-sold, you'll never "know" because of the CMC failure either to do the complaint / provide the LoA / refer rejection to FOS so they might be forced to pay out something as compensation which is no bad thing