Who is the client when a solicitor is executor?

DisappointedSiblings

Our father died many years ago and left mum the family home - of course. She remarried several years ago and he moved in with her  into what was our 'family home'. Sadly over time her new husband had carefully and cleverly driven a rift between us and her, cutting us out of as much as he could, concentrating on his own family, which in some respects is normal of course. But relations became strained. Unfortunately our mother died suddenly a few months ago. As expected she had rewritten her will, leaving her new husband everything in the house, (even our childhood things!) but dividing the rest of her estate between her husband and us her children. We are not really sure whether any of our fathers investments still exist but we think they might now be part of her estate. Apparently The house is now in some kind of trust until it is sold, with half going to her children and the other half to his estate if he dies or if he sells up. We don’t know whether he could veto that and change her will, we fear our family home will be passed to his children without us even knowing? And to be honest that seems very unfair. Dad worked hard to pay for that house and he would have wanted it to be passed to his children.

It seems that Mum had appointed a solicitor as joint executor along with her husband. My siblings and I have a copy of her death certificate and her will, but have had nothing else from her husband or the solicitor at all. It's been weeks now. The solicitor says Mum's new husband is his client?? And that she can't tell us anything without his agreement? Surely it is my mother's estate paying the bill and that her estate is the client???? We also think that he has his will written and held at a different solicitors and we are worried that he can now veto our mum's wishes completely?

We aren’t allowed into the house and communications are difficult. We hear that they are selling everything in the house without discussing it with us? We would like a few of our mother's personal things? Where do we stand? Can he change her will? Or in effect veto her wishes? We can understand her wanting to ‘protect’ him and make sure he had somewhere to live ( he didn’t pay towards anything, or repairs to the house though we think he did sell a small property when he moved in,so we think he has some funds - probably not relevant) but he appears to have been very controlling and honestly we feel this has all been engineered in his favour. We feel very exposed now and very unsure what to do. She would be so very disappointed. It's all so distressing. Thank you.

p00hsticks

Firstly, sorry for your loss.

DisappointedSiblings said:

It seems that Mum had appointed a solicitor as joint executor along with her husband. My siblings and I have a copy of her death certificate and her will, but have had nothing else from her husband or the solicitor at all. It's been weeks now. 

The executors are under no obligation to communicate with the beneficiaries untli they are ready to distribute the estate according to the will - and if there is property involved that may well involve requiring probate, which can take months.

DisappointedSiblings said:

 We aren’t allowed into the house and communications are difficult. We hear that they are selling everything in the house without discussing it with us? We would like a few of our mother's personal things? Where do we stand?

Unfortunately, if your mother's will says that she left the house contents to her husband, then it's legally it's up to him what he does with them. all you can do is get in touch with him (via the solicitor dealing with the estate if communicatinos have broken down completely) to politely ask if you could have some of the things that are of sentimental value only - perhaps even offering to pay the estate for them if they are items that do have any value.

DisappointedSiblings said:

Can he change her will? Or in effect veto her wishes?

The only way a will can effectively be changed after a persons death is by a 'Deed of variation' which requires all beneficiaries of the original will who would be adversely affected to agree to the changes. so no. he can't change her will. And if she made her wishes clear in the will, then he can't veto them. But anything not in the will (e.g. letting individuals have individual household items) them is really up to the goodwill of the person who has been left them.

Keep_pedalling

It sounds like, she left half the house to him with the other half you her children, with a life interest for him on your half.

The solicitor’s client is the estate, and as a joint executor your step father is the only person the solicitor is going to deal with. You no right to access to the house, but at least with a solicitor involved your interest in the estate is going to be protected.

You are free to challenge the will, but that would be expensive and will almost certainly fail unless you have strong evidence of coercion or fraud.

naedanger

Does the will actually name the solicitors as a joint executor or does it just say that the executor can employ a solicitor to act for them? If it is the latter then the solicitor's client is the executor. If it is the former then I would have thought the solicitor's client would be the estate (as you say) or the beneficiaries. However as they would be acting in a joint capacity I can see that they might say they could not provide any information without the other executor's agreement (provided that agreement was not unreasonable withheld).

It will be better for you if the solicitor is acting a joint executor rather than just acting for the executor.

The executor cannot veto your mother's will. But if your mother left stuff to him with just the hope or wish that he did something further with it (e.g. on his death) then he could ignore those non-binding wishes.

Unfortunately if the will said all your mother's personal possessions were to go to her husband then he is free to do whatever he wishes with them. (If you owned any of the possessions then you would be entitled to have them returned but in practice it might be difficult for you to prove ownership.)

DisappointedSiblings

p00hsticks said:

Firstly, sorry for your loss.

DisappointedSiblings said:

It seems that Mum had appointed a solicitor as joint executor along with her husband. My siblings and I have a copy of her death certificate and her will, but have had nothing else from her husband or the solicitor at all. It's been weeks now. 

The executors are under no obligation to communicate with the beneficiaries untli they are ready to distribute the estate according to the will - and if there is property involved that may well involve requiring probate, which can take months.

DisappointedSiblings said:

 We aren’t allowed into the house and communications are difficult. We hear that they are selling everything in the house without discussing it with us? We would like a few of our mother's personal things? Where do we stand?

Unfortunately, if your mother's will says that she left the house contents to her husband, then it's legally it's up to him what he does with them. all you can do is get in touch with him (via the solicitor dealing with the estate if communicatinos have broken down completely) to politely ask if you could have some of the things that are of sentimental value only - perhaps even offering to pay the estate for them if they are items that do have any value.

DisappointedSiblings said:

Can he change her will? Or in effect veto her wishes?

The only way a will can effectively be changed after a persons death is by a 'Deed of variation' which requires all beneficiaries of the original will who would be adversely affected to agree to the changes. so no. he can't change her will. And if she made her wishes clear in the will, then he can't veto them. But anything not in the will (e.g. letting individuals have individual household items) them is really up to the goodwill of the person who has been left them.

That's all very helpful thank you. And for your condolences, appreciated.

DisappointedSiblings

naedanger said:

Does the will actually name the solicitors as a joint executor or does it just say that the executor can employ a solicitor to act for them? If it is the latter then the solicitor's client is the executor. If it is the former then I would have thought the solicitor's client would be the estate (as you say) or the beneficiaries. However as they would be acting in a joint capacity I can see that they might say they could not provide any information without the other executor's agreement (provided that agreement was not unreasonable withheld).

It will be better for you if the solicitor is acting a joint executor rather than just acting for the executor.

The executor cannot veto your mother's will. But if your mother left stuff to him with just the hope or wish that he did something further with it (e.g. on his death) then he could ignore those non-binding wishes.

Unfortunately if the will said all your mother's personal possessions were to go to her husband then he is free to do whatever he wishes with them. (If you owned any of the possessions then you would be entitled to have them returned but in practice it might be difficult for you to prove ownership.)

Thank you for your advice. I think the solicitor firm is the second executor, but the solicitor that has been appointed doesn't seem v clued up and when we have asked Qs she has had to go away and read up and come back to us?

DisappointedSiblings

Keep_pedalling said:

It sounds like, she left half the house to him with the other half you her children, with a life interest for him on your half.

The solicitor’s client is the estate, and as a joint executor your step father is the only person the solicitor is going to deal with. You no right to access to the house, but at least with a solicitor involved your interest in the estate is going to be protected.

You are free to challenge the will, but that would be expensive and will almost certainly fail unless you have strong evidence of coercion or fraud.

Thank you for your advice, that's v helpful. How does the life interest work do you know, or probably more to the point, is there anyway that can be changed? It's pretty clear he will spend or divide as much as he can to benefit him and his family, what do we need to do to 'protect' our interest? We think he has filed his will with a different solicitor which is causing some concern. Is that unusual?

Keep_pedalling

DisappointedSiblings said:

Keep_pedalling said:

It sounds like, she left half the house to him with the other half you her children, with a life interest for him on your half.

The solicitor’s client is the estate, and as a joint executor your step father is the only person the solicitor is going to deal with. You no right to access to the house, but at least with a solicitor involved your interest in the estate is going to be protected.

You are free to challenge the will, but that would be expensive and will almost certainly fail unless you have strong evidence of coercion or fraud.

Thank you for your advice, that's v helpful. How does the life interest work do you know, or probably more to the point, is there anyway that can be changed? It's pretty clear he will spend or divide as much as he can to benefit him and his family, what do we need to do to 'protect' our interest? We think he has filed his will with a different solicitor which is causing some concern. Is that unusual?

He can choose any solicitor he chooses, and if they did not have mirror wills it is not unusual. 

Life interest trusts

https://helpandadvice.co.uk/interest-in-possession-trusts/

RetSol

How does the life interest work do you know, or probably more to the point, is there anyway that can be changed? It's pretty clear he will spend or divide as much as he can to benefit him and his family, what do we need to do to 'protect' our interest?

Have you considered instructing a solicitor to act for you and asking for their advice?  There are things that can be done to protect your interests in the house (entry of a restriction at the Land registry,, for example).  Your mother's will must be carried out by the executors/trustees.  If the executors are solicitors, that should, as has been said above, be enough to prevent jiggery pokery.  However, particularly if your stepfather wants a quick sale, you may be vulnerable.  If you and your siblings have solicitors acting for you, the executors will know that someone has an eye on them. 

DisappointedSiblings

RetSol said:

How does the life interest work do you know, or probably more to the point, is there anyway that can be changed? It's pretty clear he will spend or divide as much as he can to benefit him and his family, what do we need to do to 'protect' our interest?

Have you considered instructing a solicitor to act for you and asking for their advice?  There are things that can be done to protect your interests in the house (entry of a restriction at the Land registry,, for example).  Your mother's will must be carried out by the executors/trustees.  If the executors are solicitors, that should, as has been said above, be enough to prevent jiggery pokery.  However, particularly if your stepfather wants a quick sale, you may be vulnerable.  If you and your siblings have solicitors acting for you, the executors will know that someone has an eye on them. 

Thank you. I think we do need to consider instructing a solicitor. But if our mother's estate is this solicitor's client then presumably they 'should' advise us? When you say 'you may be vulnerable' can you explain how that could manifest so we can be aware. It's all so distasteful isn't it?

Keep_pedalling

DisappointedSiblings said:

RetSol said:

How does the life interest work do you know, or probably more to the point, is there anyway that can be changed? It's pretty clear he will spend or divide as much as he can to benefit him and his family, what do we need to do to 'protect' our interest?

Have you considered instructing a solicitor to act for you and asking for their advice?  There are things that can be done to protect your interests in the house (entry of a restriction at the Land registry,, for example).  Your mother's will must be carried out by the executors/trustees.  If the executors are solicitors, that should, as has been said above, be enough to prevent jiggery pokery.  However, particularly if your stepfather wants a quick sale, you may be vulnerable.  If you and your siblings have solicitors acting for you, the executors will know that someone has an eye on them. 

Thank you. I think we do need to consider instructing a solicitor. But if our mother's estate is this solicitor's client then presumably they 'should' advise us? When you say 'you may be vulnerable' can you explain how that could manifest so we can be aware. It's all so distasteful isn't it?

At the moment all you have is suspicions, I would not engage any solicitors until probate has been obtained and the probate records are in the public domaine.

No the solicitor acting as executor cannot represent you if you are questioning the administration of the estate it would be a conflict on interest. If your mother wanted any of her children involved in the winding up of her estate she would have appointed you as executors but she did not do that so all you can do for the moment is to wait until probate has been obtained.