Fence Height on lower ground

hgd7

Wondering if anyone can help point to the right answer, I have a fence which I own and am looking to replace. I want to replace the existing 1.6m fence with a 2m fence, however the neighbour to my left who's garden backs onto my side is on lower ground by at least 1m. They are disputing that the fence I put up should be measured from their ground up and not mine. I can't see how this fair when they are so further down, and therefore that would my fence be low so I would get no privacy as my head would pop over all the time. Seems to me that I am at a disadvantage for being on higher ground. And any new fence would be pointless in this case. Any idea how this should be measured. All i wanted was my garden to not be overlooked but they are refusing to allow it as they feel it will make their garden look enclosed.

Grenage

Surely you're not being overlooked if you have the high ground?  

hgd7

Grenage said:

Surely you're not being overlooked if you have the high ground?  

From their houses I am, which are all looking into my garden. Even sitting in my garden I can see all of their bedroom windows clearly (plus the 2 loft convo).

grumbler

I am pretty sure that it's your level that counts if the fence is yours.

koalakoala

Put a fence inside your own ground

Jeepers_Creepers

Blimey, this surprised me:

"When measuring the height of the fence, normally this would be measured from the natural ground level of the fence owner’s property. However, where the ground levels on either side of the fence are significantly different, the height should be measured from the lower ground level.

If you wish to erect a fence that is higher than that which is permitted without planning permission then your only option would be to make an application for permission to your Local Authority. Interestingly, planning permission is not normally needed for any hedge that is positioned upon a boundary whatever its height or location. Although, the Highways Authority can take action against the homeowner if a hedge has been allowed to grow out of control to the extent that it is obstructing a footpath or highway.

Can I make my neighbour reduce the height of their fence? 

Provided your neighbour’s fence is under 2m in height or if adjacent to a highway or footpath is not less than 1m in height then (in the absence of a restrictive covenant which you can enforce) it will not be possible to force your neighbour to reduce the height of their fence.

However, when considering the height of your neighbour’s fence if the ground on either side of the fence is at different levels then you must ensure that you measure from the lowest ground level and not the highest.

Therefore, if the ground level between two properties differed by half a metre at the boundary point then when measuring the height of the fence the half metre would need to be taken into account and the fence erected should not be more than 1.5m in height when standing on the higher ground"

https://www.jacksons-fencing.co.uk/the-edit/boundary-disputes-knowing-where-to-draw-the-line-for-fencing

The above surprised me not just because I personally think it's unfair, but my sis-in-law bought a 2007 terraced house which has stepped borders (a good 1m difference) between them all, but also a standard 6' fence between them. Yes, that means sis's neighb's fence is the best part of 3m high, but it doesn't feel like it (and it's a small garden) and - frankly - she wouldn't want it any other way, certainly not with the neighbs looming over a 1m fence!

How steep is the step in the garden levels? Is there a retaining wall? If so, you - as the higher ground level owner - will almost certainly be responsible for it. Your fence will also very likely need to be stepped in from that edge a bit? In which case it's totally on your land and not the 'boundary'. Armed with that, I think you could erect your 6' fence and let them whistle. Whilst the above extract (if correct - I'm not certain it is) would suggest you shouldn't put up a fence more than 1m in height! ('cos their ground is at least 1m further down), I think they'd be on a hiding to nowhere if they complained.

I had a similarish situation here, tho' not as severe since the differences in ground height was only around 1.5', but it still meant that - on the central, higher part of my front garden I could see right into their connie whenever I was outside the house. So I put up a 6' fence. The neighb was a bit miffed initially - he referred to it as the 'Berlin Wall' - but could literally see my point when I stood there talking to him, with me still quite visible over t'top.

Two things that could help persuade them; one is to use your garden as much as possible - inviting family and friends around too - and have them mill around the fence, leaning their elbows on the top as much as possible. Don't forget to have them wave to the neighbs whenever they catch their eye... The other is to discuss loudly in the garden the merits of a Leylandii hedge instead of a troublesome wooden fence - that can be quite persuasive.

Only (slightly) kidding about these ideas, but the you overlooking them issue is surely a good discussion point? Explain you are not only - and rightly - concerned about your lack of privacy in your own garden, but also don't feel comfortable being able to avoid seeing into theirs. Explain that you have gone to pains to avoid looking in that direction, or getting too close to the fence since you didn't want them to feel 'overlooked (you are that caring...), but that - frankly - that's becoming a bit of a bind and it has meant you aren't fully comfy in your own garden as you'll felt obliged to 'avoid' one side of it. A standard 6' fence should help this issue for both parties.

Based on their response - if it's havering - then try a compromise; "How about a 1.6m high fence with a trellis on top that I can run climbers along?"

If they are bolshie and adamant, then it's 'hedge' time. Tell them you'll probably trim it when it's reached the height you want.

Why isn't your neighbour bothered about being overlooked by you?! Is it because you have been considerate about this? If so, well, you know...

TELLIT01

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Blimey, this surprised me:

"When measuring the height of the fence, normally this would be measured from the natural ground level of the fence owner’s property. However, where the ground levels on either side of the fence are significantly different, the height should be measured from the lower ground level.

That surprised me too.  Presumably if the fence was erected a few inches in from the boundary the ground level on either side of the fence will not be different, significantly or otherwise, so there is no problem.

hgd7

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Blimey, this surprised me:

"When measuring the height of the fence, normally this would be measured from the natural ground level of the fence owner’s property. However, where the ground levels on either side of the fence are significantly different, the height should be measured from the lower ground level.

If you wish to erect a fence that is higher than that which is permitted without planning permission then your only option would be to make an application for permission to your Local Authority. Interestingly, planning permission is not normally needed for any hedge that is positioned upon a boundary whatever its height or location. Although, the Highways Authority can take action against the homeowner if a hedge has been allowed to grow out of control to the extent that it is obstructing a footpath or highway.

Can I make my neighbour reduce the height of their fence? 

Provided your neighbour’s fence is under 2m in height or if adjacent to a highway or footpath is not less than 1m in height then (in the absence of a restrictive covenant which you can enforce) it will not be possible to force your neighbour to reduce the height of their fence.

However, when considering the height of your neighbour’s fence if the ground on either side of the fence is at different levels then you must ensure that you measure from the lowest ground level and not the highest.

Therefore, if the ground level between two properties differed by half a metre at the boundary point then when measuring the height of the fence the half metre would need to be taken into account and the fence erected should not be more than 1.5m in height when standing on the higher ground"

https://www.jacksons-fencing.co.uk/the-edit/boundary-disputes-knowing-where-to-draw-the-line-for-fencing

The above surprised me not just because I personally think it's unfair, but my sis-in-law bought a 2007 terraced house which has stepped borders (a good 1m difference) between them all, but also a standard 6' fence between them. Yes, that means sis's neighb's fence is the best part of 3m high, but it doesn't feel like it (and it's a small garden) and - frankly - she wouldn't want it any other way, certainly not with the neighbs looming over a 1m fence!

How steep is the step in the garden levels? Is there a retaining wall? If so, you - as the higher ground level owner - will almost certainly be responsible for it. Your fence will also very likely need to be stepped in from that edge a bit? In which case it's totally on your land and not the 'boundary'. Armed with that, I think you could erect your 6' fence and let them whistle. Whilst the above extract (if correct - I'm not certain it is) would suggest you shouldn't put up a fence more than 1m in height! ('cos their ground is at least 1m further down), I think they'd be on a hiding to nowhere if they complained.

I had a similarish situation here, tho' not as severe since the differences in ground height was only around 1.5', but it still meant that - on the central, higher part of my front garden I could see right into their connie whenever I was outside the house. So I put up a 6' fence. The neighb was a bit miffed initially - he referred to it as the 'Berlin Wall' - but could literally see my point when I stood there talking to him, with me still quite visible over t'top.

Two things that could help persuade them; one is to use your garden as much as possible - inviting family and friends around too - and have them mill around the fence, leaning their elbows on the top as much as possible. Don't forget to have them wave to the neighbs whenever they catch their eye... The other is to discuss loudly in the garden the merits of a Leylandii hedge instead of a troublesome wooden fence - that can be quite persuasive.

Only (slightly) kidding about these ideas, but the you overlooking them issue is surely a good discussion point? Explain you are not only - and rightly - concerned about your lack of privacy in your own garden, but also don't feel comfortable being able to avoid seeing into theirs. Explain that you have gone to pains to avoid looking in that direction, or getting too close to the fence since you didn't want them to feel 'overlooked (you are that caring...), but that - frankly - that's becoming a bit of a bind and it has meant you aren't fully comfy in your own garden as you'll felt obliged to 'avoid' one side of it. A standard 6' fence should help this issue for both parties.

Based on their response - if it's havering - then try a compromise; "How about a 1.6m high fence with a trellis on top that I can run climbers along?"

If they are bolshie and adamant, then it's 'hedge' time. Tell them you'll probably trim it when it's reached the height you want.

Why isn't your neighbour bothered about being overlooked by you?! Is it because you have been considerate about this? If so, well, you know...

Even if the above link is true, it would be unfair. So my choice is to erect a fence to my chest size. I got the whole spill about her being a single mum and feels my fence would be so tall that it makes her garden feel like a prison. A bit like the Berlin wall comment. I think from her point she cannot see into mine as she is on lower ground. However as I am above, I can see into their kitchen and rooms from standing outside looking down. Especially with 5 houses on that side all looking in from their rooms into my garden. She explained as a single lady, people take advantage. I had to explain I am not doing that but only what I think I am allowed to. I even offered to paint the side of the fence on her side, which she cannot do unless I give permission as it is a criminal offence.....madness I know, but I was being nice about it. We ended it by me saying I will put it up and if there is a legal challenge then I will look into reducing it, knowing she will not go down that route, instead just moan everyday. My offer of painting still stands.....she even had the nerve to ask for my old panels to use as a project......some nerve

joe90mitch

To play devil's advocate, we live in a similar setup, but an even lower incline from us up to our neighbours garden (maybe a foot). The neighbour wanted to put up a new fence and we agreed the plan between us. We asked if it could be not too high (existing one was 1m high) because the sun would be blocked from a lot of our garden in afternoons. Our garden is a long and narrow terrace... So I'm just saying that I can see why she might not want a high fence.

Jeepers_Creepers

hgd7 said:

 ...my choice is to erect a fence to my chest size.

"I want to replace the existing 1.6m fence with a 2m fence"

I don't understand. If the existing fence is 1.6m height, then that is surely waaaay over your chest height?

casper_gutman

Could you compromise by having a taller fence nearer the houses, where privacy might be more of an issue, but stepping down to a similar height to the current one further away?

That might give you what you need without the neighbour's garden feeling too much like the Alcatraz exercise yard. If she feels you're taking her views into account it could do wonders for maintaining a neighbourly relationship!