Damage to drain from roots

yllop1101

We moved in about 5 weeks ago, and had a conifer tree removed which was about 3m from the house. We have another which is about 8m from the house which we have cut in half. 
Just this week our waste pipe became blocked and waste leaked out in to the garden (better than the house I know!).
A plumber came round and cleared it, but was pulling clumps of roots out. We have had the local water company out to check the public sewer in our garden wasn't affected too- it's not, so now we're getting a CCTV survey on our own drains today. 
We're not sure if we will be able to claim on home insurance if worse case there is damage which is costly, because it may be classed as preexisiting (Even though we didn't know about it). 

Question- we had a homebuyers report and it said- 'The roots from trees can affect the ground underneath foundations and the underground drainage when they seek

and extract moisture. Whilst there is no obvious evidence of any damage having been caused, this could occur in the future'. The surveyor did not recommend a drain survey, which I suspect at the time (and in hindsight) may have revealed this. Is this something we could take up with the surveyor as negligence? The water from the bath is slow to drain, it has been since we moved in, but prior to the waste blockage this was perhaps the only sign of some sort of issue. 

user1977

yllop1101 said:

Whilst there is no obvious evidence of any damage having been caused, this could occur in the future'. The surveyor did not recommend a drain survey, which I suspect at the time (and in hindsight) may have revealed this. 

But presumably they hadn't told you that they had surveyed the drains? And they had highlighted the potential risk from roots?

yllop1101

user1977 said:

yllop1101 said:

Whilst there is no obvious evidence of any damage having been caused, this could occur in the future'. The surveyor did not recommend a drain survey, which I suspect at the time (and in hindsight) may have revealed this. 

But presumably they hadn't told you that they had surveyed the drains? And they had highlighted the potential risk from roots?

Correct, just in a previous house I almost brought, the surveyor was quite explicit in recommending further surveys where he thought it was necessary, i.e. where he couldn't safely say if there was an issue or not. 

AdrianC

I bet your survey highlighted various other "You may wish to commission..." things, too. Electricity, gas, plumbing, possibly asbestos and damp.

Did you have ALL of those?

Because, if not, what (other than hindsight) would have pushed you to a drainage survey? And why would you have thought it essential if the surveyor had mentioned it in passing, but didn't even consider it because he didn't?

user1977

yllop1101 said:

user1977 said:

yllop1101 said:

Whilst there is no obvious evidence of any damage having been caused, this could occur in the future'. The surveyor did not recommend a drain survey, which I suspect at the time (and in hindsight) may have revealed this. 

But presumably they hadn't told you that they had surveyed the drains? And they had highlighted the potential risk from roots?

Correct, just in a previous house I almost bought, the surveyor was quite explicit in recommending further surveys where he thought it was necessary, i.e. where he couldn't safely say if there was an issue or not. 

And then you end up with surveys where they copy and paste "recommendations" for a dozen largely pointless additional reports ("this has drains, you should get a drainage survey", "this has a roof, you should have a roofer check it" etc). If they've actually spotted a problem which needs further investigation, fair enough.

elsien

And in hindsight you could either have asked your surveyor a more specific question about a survey or had one done anyway for your own peace of mind. 

The surveyor did not say “there is no damage, the drains are fine.”
I can’t see any negligence here. 

Mickey666

Surveyors are pretty good at covering themselves, so while it might be worth pursuing a claim I wouldn't rely on a quick or positive outcome.  As for claiming on your house insurance, only your insurer will be able to give an answer on that, but definitely worth asking.

As for the actual problem, if clumps of roots have already been pulled out from the drain then there is definitely a problem to fix because the roots will definitely be back.  Just imagine how good it is for a tree, or any plant, to tap into a source of water and, er, nutrition.  If the root got in before, they'll get in again.

As for being expensive to fix, well probably if builders are involved, but it's really not a difficult job.  I had a similar problem with a blocked pipe to our septic tank, again well away from the house.  I already had a mini-digger on site but they only cost about £250/week to hire, which is plenty of time for such a job.  I replaced a 6m length of multiple old 'salt glaze' pipes with a single length of modern plastic pipe which costs peanuts.  I can't remember the exact cost but even with two connection adapters I doubt the pipe work cost was much more than £100.   This is the sort of job where the materials costs and skill level is negligible but it's the time that costs money.  If you can DIY it then the savings will likely run into £1000s.
Assuming the insurance company won't payout of course.

Chandler85

Drains are covered to varying degrees by insurance companies, some cover them, some cover only certain types (not pitched fibre often) and others cover virtually nothing.  So speak to them, they'll likely get it surveyed and then decide if it is covered.

They class it as accidental damage for some reason, so if you don't have that you are unlikely covered.

yllop1101

AdrianC said:

I bet your survey highlighted various other "You may wish to commission..." things, too. Electricity, gas, plumbing, possibly asbestos and damp.

Did you have ALL of those?

Because, if not, what (other than hindsight) would have pushed you to a drainage survey? And why would you have thought it essential if the surveyor had mentioned it in passing, but didn't even consider it because he didn't?

You're making a lot of assumptions, most of which are incorrect. It didn't actually recommend any other surveys. 
The work it did suggest, we got sorted prior to buying (where it was urgent) and are doing now we own the place (where it was non urgent), such as replacing gutters, installing vents, removing asbestos pipes etc. 
So, if it had said 'these roots present a risk to your drains AND I would recommend a survey to check there is no damage underground, as whilst nothing is visible up here, I can't see down there and it could be very costly to repair', then I most likely would have had that done (for example, in the previous house I almost brought, it did suggest a damp survey, so I had a damp survey, and I then pulled out due to the precarious findings). The advice instead was 'careful management' of the trees (which we have done- we cut the one down closest the house). 

Where specific advice was given, we took it. My question is there wasn't specific advice here, and should that have been given. It seems the opinion is no. 

oystercatcher

We had a similar problem covered by our insurance company a few years ago. It was only discovered because the house two doors along had a problem and were running a camera along the drains and asked if we would like them to extend to us. They went all along the four houses in our row, found roots and we each contacted our own insurance companies who were happy to cover the cost of repairs.

FreeBear

Mickey666 said: As for being expensive to fix, well probably if builders are involved, but it's really not a difficult job.  I had a similar problem with a blocked pipe to our septic tank, again well away from the house.  I already had a mini-digger on site but they only cost about £250/week to hire, which is plenty of time for such a job.  I replaced a 6m length of multiple old 'salt glaze' pipes with a single length of modern plastic pipe which costs peanuts.  I can't remember the exact cost but even with two connection adapters I doubt the pipe work cost was much more than £100.   This is the sort of job where the materials costs and skill level is negligible but it's the time that costs money.  If you can DIY it then the savings will likely run into £1000s.

Hired a lad with a mini-digger for a day to do some "landscaping" which involved digging a hole for a soakaway plus associated trenching for the pipe - A cost of £250 which I thought very reasonable considering the amount of work we got done in a day. Ring round a few groundswork companies and sole trade landscapers.

If the OP's work is to the foul water drain, then the work needs to comply with building regulations - New pipes should be bedded on to a layer of gravel and capped with the same before filling in. Also need to ensure there is the correct fall on the pipe... Up to you if you want to get Building Control involved. Once the trenches are filled in, no one is going to know, and you can save yourself £500 plus the delays.