Can you delay stamp duty payment?

rennes99

TBG01 said:

Taking into consideration "months" has quickly turned out to be less than a month, you can probably forgive me for doubting your honesty, but anyhow, it's all the Solicitors fault and the vendor is keen to sell. So what?

Most vendors should be keen to sell, and  buyers should be keen to buy, but it doesn't mean they're in a position to complete in their self dictated timescale.  

Sorry, what have i been dishonest about? The vendor has already bought another place with another party separately, and wants the cash asap to do things with it, from the proceeds of the sale! Nothing.

And is there any flaw in the logic of my argument above?

SpiderLegs

rennes99 said:

OK maybe I should ask this. And without trying to instigate the debate of "chicken and egg" here.....
Why was the SDTL holiday introduced?
Answer: To stimulate the property market and thus economy at large, by giving people an incentive to move house.
Next question: why haven't the government made the benefit "non-payable" at time of instruction, rather than at "completion," with "completion" being a HUGELY variable measurement, depending largely on uncontrolable variables and at the mercy of a system that has been completely overloaded and overstressed by the very incentive it is seeking to meet and has been stimulated by!!

If made at instruction, there is the incentive to carry it through and complete! 
I can only deduce, they are playing two steps ahead here and are overstimulating the market so that many more rush into a purchase, and ore will be liable for SDTL once completed than will have otherwise been, all the while paying for solictiors, EA fees, new furniture etc pumping tax into the economy. 
Why on earth is it not from "instruction," which is easily verified by converyancers? 

By the "you should have mitigated for it months ago" arguement, where was the cut off then?!  3 months? 5 months before?! Its too variable! It should be able to be benefited from at the point of offer accepted or instruction (i.e the point at which parties have taken the action and decision incentivised by the SDTL holiday as was it's purpose) , or at the very least "exchange" where it's legally bound to happen.

Feel free to sign the petition.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/581308
very close to getting a govt response now. Can’t wait to hear it.

moneysavinghero

rennes99 said:

OK maybe I should ask this. And without trying to instigate the debate of "chicken and egg" here.....
Why was the SDTL holiday introduced?
Answer: To stimulate the property market and thus economy at large, by giving people an incentive to move house.
Next question: why haven't the government made the benefit "non-payable" at time of instruction, rather than at "completion," with "completion" being a HUGELY variable measurement, depending largely on uncontrolable variables and at the mercy of a system that has been completely overloaded and overstressed by the very incentive it is seeking to meet and has been stimulated by!!

If made at instruction, there is the incentive to carry it through and complete! 
I can only deduce, they are playing two steps ahead here and are overstimulating the market so that many more rush into a purchase, and ore will be liable for SDTL once completed than will have otherwise been, all the while paying for solictiors, EA fees, new furniture etc pumping tax into the economy. 
Why on earth is it not from "instruction," which is easily verified by converyancers? 

By the "you should have mitigated for it months ago" arguement, where was the cut off then?!  3 months? 5 months before?! Its too variable! It should be able to be benefited from at the point of offer accepted or instruction (i.e the point at which parties have taken the action and decision incentivised by the SDTL holiday as was it's purpose) , or at the very least "exchange" where it's legally bound to happen.

It's a tax on property purchases. The only point you have purchased a property is at the point of completion. That is why it is applied then.

rennes99

SpiderLegs said:

rennes99 said:

OK maybe I should ask this. And without trying to instigate the debate of "chicken and egg" here.....
Why was the SDTL holiday introduced?
Answer: To stimulate the property market and thus economy at large, by giving people an incentive to move house.
Next question: why haven't the government made the benefit "non-payable" at time of instruction, rather than at "completion," with "completion" being a HUGELY variable measurement, depending largely on uncontrolable variables and at the mercy of a system that has been completely overloaded and overstressed by the very incentive it is seeking to meet and has been stimulated by!!

If made at instruction, there is the incentive to carry it through and complete! 
I can only deduce, they are playing two steps ahead here and are overstimulating the market so that many more rush into a purchase, and ore will be liable for SDTL once completed than will have otherwise been, all the while paying for solictiors, EA fees, new furniture etc pumping tax into the economy. 
Why on earth is it not from "instruction," which is easily verified by converyancers? 

By the "you should have mitigated for it months ago" arguement, where was the cut off then?!  3 months? 5 months before?! Its too variable! It should be able to be benefited from at the point of offer accepted or instruction (i.e the point at which parties have taken the action and decision incentivised by the SDTL holiday as was it's purpose) , or at the very least "exchange" where it's legally bound to happen.

Feel free to sign the petition.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/581308
very close to getting a govt response now. Can’t wait to hear it.

Have done so.. although i'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not...

We'll see.

Slithery

rennes99 said:

By the "you should have mitigated for it months ago" arguement, where was the cut off then?!  3 months? 5 months before?

Seeing as how the original cutoff was the end of March and average timescales are usually 3 months then if you didn't have a complete chain by the end of last year then you were already pushing it. You were at least 4 months too late.

rennes99

moneysavinghero said:

rennes99 said:

OK maybe I should ask this. And without trying to instigate the debate of "chicken and egg" here.....
Why was the SDTL holiday introduced?
Answer: To stimulate the property market and thus economy at large, by giving people an incentive to move house.
Next question: why haven't the government made the benefit "non-payable" at time of instruction, rather than at "completion," with "completion" being a HUGELY variable measurement, depending largely on uncontrolable variables and at the mercy of a system that has been completely overloaded and overstressed by the very incentive it is seeking to meet and has been stimulated by!!

If made at instruction, there is the incentive to carry it through and complete! 
I can only deduce, they are playing two steps ahead here and are overstimulating the market so that many more rush into a purchase, and ore will be liable for SDTL once completed than will have otherwise been, all the while paying for solictiors, EA fees, new furniture etc pumping tax into the economy. 
Why on earth is it not from "instruction," which is easily verified by converyancers? 

By the "you should have mitigated for it months ago" arguement, where was the cut off then?!  3 months? 5 months before?! Its too variable! It should be able to be benefited from at the point of offer accepted or instruction (i.e the point at which parties have taken the action and decision incentivised by the SDTL holiday as was it's purpose) , or at the very least "exchange" where it's legally bound to happen.

It's a tax on property purchases. The only point you have purchased a property is at the point of completion. That is why it is applied then.

I agree, that is correct.
But because of an extraordinary action, it needs and extraordinary response by those who made the extraordinary action. If completion timescales are greatly extended by the goal posts moving, why isn't the taxable cut off moved to accommodate for this? 

Slithery

Have you read this thread?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6262048/petition-stamp-duty-holiday-to-be-triggered-upon-exchange-of-contracts

All the arguments that you're giving have been previously discussed there.

rennes99

Slithery said:

rennes99 said:

By the "you should have mitigated for it months ago" arguement, where was the cut off then?!  3 months? 5 months before?

Seeing as how the original cutoff was the end of March and average timescales are usually 3 months then if you didn't have a complete chain by the end of last year then you were already pushing it. You were at least 4 months too late.

What does average mean?! How can anyone measure what is usual? What if there was an unforeseen circumstance in the purchase that meant it was delayed by 6 months, but otherwise would have a "usual" timescale?

What shoudl matter is the buyer has been incentivised by the incentive! It's not to the benefit fo anyone else other than the buyer! Not their solictiors, not the lender, not the broker, not the vendor.... but the buyer! They have decided to move and take action as they have been offered a stamp duty break..... so why is that up to everyone else to make it happen, other than the person paying the bloody tax int he first place?!

grumiofoundation

rennes99 said:

By the "you should have mitigated for it months ago" arguement, where was the cut off then?!  3 months? 5 months before?! Its too variable! It should be able to be benefited from at the point of offer accepted or instruction (i.e the point at which parties have taken the action and decision incentivised by the SDTL holiday as was it's purpose) , or at the very least "exchange" where it's legally bound to happen.

At a minimum I would say anyone having an offer accepted in 2021 should have planned for the eventuality they wouldn’t complete in time to benefit from the holiday. 

Realistically anyone offering in the latter half of 2020 should have considered the possibility as well. 

MaryNB

rennes99 said:

Slithery said:

rennes99 said:

By the "you should have mitigated for it months ago" arguement, where was the cut off then?!  3 months? 5 months before?

Seeing as how the original cutoff was the end of March and average timescales are usually 3 months then if you didn't have a complete chain by the end of last year then you were already pushing it. You were at least 4 months too late.

What does average mean?! How can anyone measure what is usual? What if there was an unforeseen circumstance in the purchase that meant it was delayed by 6 months, but otherwise would have a "usual" timescale?

What shoudl matter is the buyer has been incentivised by the incentive! It's not to the benefit fo anyone else other than the buyer! Not their solictiors, not the lender, not the broker, not the vendor.... but the buyer! They have decided to move and take action as they have been offered a stamp duty break..... so why is that up to everyone else to make it happen, other than the person paying the bloody tax int he first place?!

It's a group effort. It's up to everyone to get it done. Anybody can hold it up. The other people in your chain don't have the same incentive and are probably surprised you expected to meet the June deadline. It's not their problem that you need to meet the deadline and a 2 month process is unrealistic. Given that surveyors and solicitors are snowed under with work due to the mini boom, it's taking them a lot longer. Searches are taking weeks, nothing the lender, broker, solicitor, buyer or seller can do about that. When I asked for survey quotes last September most local surveyors said they couldn't visit a house in less than a month due to their work load. At the start of the stamp duty holiday it was taking some people up to a month to get a mortgage appointment due to high demand. 

Anybody I knew buying to take advantage of the stamp duty holiday either treated it as a bonus (so they could still afford the property after the holiday) or offered on the condition that they would meet the holiday deadline and made the seller aware they would drop their offer if it went beyond it. At least in that case the seller was aware from the start.