Can you delay stamp duty payment?

Justonemorecupoftea

Slithery said:

rennes99 said:

It should not take more than 8 weeks to buy an empty, no chain on either side property! Should it?!

Yes. Average timescales between the chain forming and completion were 12 weeks before covid. Expecting to do it in 8 weeks currently was always unfeasible.

When we bought this place as first time buyers 5 years ago it took 3 and a bit months. The seller had already moved out, there was nothing complicated about the sale/mortgage. Unfortunately solicitors are dealing with multiple cases, having to communicate with multiple people, wait for sign off from multiple parties etc to make sure everything lines up.

Yes it's a crap system that's ultimately admin on steroids in most cases, but people should stop to think about how long it actually takes to do all of the stuff a solicitor needs to do and that they might work in a certain way because it is more efficient e.g. waiting for all searches before making enquiries, rather than doing it piecemeal. If they "just took 10 minutes" to have a phone call with everyone who wanted to talk to them, they would have no time to do anything.

The alternative would be that solicitors limit the number of clients they take on and have waiting lists and probably charge more.

moneysavinghero

It took me 4 months to buy an empty no chain on either side property.- and this was back in the 2008 financial crisis when house sales were relatively rare so solicitors were not rushed of their feet like they are now. Currently you have lots of people stomping their feet and demanding that their solicitor gets their fingers out to ensure their house meets the deadline.

rennes99

I think the whole thing has fallen down the crack between "time critical, result and effort dependent outcome" work and "non-incentivised, salaried, non business minded and passive" operatives (and not enough of them to cope with their demand) doing this work.

I'm half tempted to offer a £1000 bonus if completion is done in time, but this wouldn't get me anywhere i dont think!!!

Tiglet2

Are you buying a flat?  Leasehold takes a lot longer than freehold as there is a management company/landlord/freeholder to add to the mix of third parties that contribute to the transaction. 

rennes99

Tiglet2 said:

Are you buying a flat?  Leasehold takes a lot longer than freehold as there is a management company/landlord/freeholder to add to the mix of third parties that contribute to the transaction. 

It's a share of freehold flat, whereby the Freehold of the building is owned by 2 other owner/occupiers in the building, so no management company/landlord/freeholder, and it'll be "managed" by a Ltd Co. that I will be a director of (registered at the particular flat i'm buying, so I will be the "MD" as it were.) The vendor is keen to sell asap and had their ducks in a row.... its the conveyancers on either side that are the issue!

Tiglet2

rennes99 said:

Tiglet2 said:

Are you buying a flat?  Leasehold takes a lot longer than freehold as there is a management company/landlord/freeholder to add to the mix of third parties that contribute to the transaction. 

It's a share of freehold flat, whereby the Freehold of the building is owned by 2 other owner/occupiers in the building, so no management company/landlord/freeholder, and it'll be "managed" by a Ltd Co. that I will be a director of (registered at the particular flat i'm buying, so I will be the "MD" as it were.) The vendor is keen to sell asap and had their ducks in a row.... its the conveyancers on either side that are the issue!

You are still buying a leasehold title, but in addition you are being transferred a share in the freehold title.  All the freeholders will have to sign the transfer document for the freehold.  It will still take longer than a completely freehold purchase.

Slithery

Just because it's share of freehold doesn't mean that there isn't a landlord/freeholder - there is.

You will still have all the added complexity and timescales that purchasing any leasehold property entails.

AnotherJoe

rennes99 said:

AnotherJoe said:

You're a first time buyer spending 425,000 pounds paying a reduced stamp duty fee and you want an additional handout from the government !

You knew when you went into this what the possibilities were, you likely even went in when it looked like there would be a complete drop off and you'd miss entirely, but you've qualified for a tapered reduction, and you are still complaining?

Could almost be a definition of "chutzpah" .

I have scraped and saved, as has my partner who i'm buying with, over many years, and are only now in a position to obtain a mortgage on a £425k property (which a small 2 bed flat where I live, as this is what we need and is "cheap" where we live and work and must stay) because the £6/7k represents a half a year decrease in the time we'll have to wait wasting money on rent, and have done it as early we can. It should not take more than 8 weeks to buy an empty, no chain on either side property! Should it?!

It took me, just pre-covid about 3 months to sell a flat with no chain. Flats take longer. Leases, management companies that employ snails in their legal departments, etc. I dont even think there wasa mortgage involved ! 

So, "should it" - no. "does it" and does every know that. Yes.

I'm not going to benefit from the taper as i'm a first time buyer. Yes I knew the possibilties, but when it takes 3 weeks for a solictor to be reminded to chase an initial contract pack (they seem to be COMPLETELY passive on both sides) and to refuse t run searches concurrently (i'm paying for the so why not?!) it just frustrates me.

If i took 3 weeks to remember to chase an email i'd be out the door at my job if i carried on. I;ve paid enough tax only to be taxed again for daring to want to buy a small property, despite being incentivised to do so, but being scuppered by the very fact the incentive exists?! I;ve had nothing during covid and have worked flat out all the way through. Not chutzpah, just would like some sort of equitable resolution for once

When would it end? How long should this be dragged out for?

You should have gone into this with an expectation it wont happen in time and no/lower SDLT would be a bonus.

Plenty of reasons for that. None of them should have come as a surprise to you, all mentioned here. Whether or not they are "reasonable' they were all known by you.

TBG01

Taking into consideration "months" has quickly turned out to be less than a month, you can probably forgive me for doubting your honesty, but anyhow, it's all the Solicitors fault and the vendor is keen to sell. So what?

Most vendors should be keen to sell, and  buyers should be keen to buy, but it doesn't mean they're in a position to complete in their self dictated timescale.  

rennes99

OK maybe I should ask this. And without trying to instigate the debate of "chicken and egg" here.....
Why was the SDTL holiday introduced?
Answer: To stimulate the property market and thus economy at large, by giving people an incentive to move house.
Next question: why haven't the government made the benefit "non-payable" at time of instruction, rather than at "completion," with "completion" being a HUGELY variable measurement, depending largely on uncontrolable variables and at the mercy of a system that has been completely overloaded and overstressed by the very incentive it is seeking to meet and has been stimulated by!!

If made at instruction, there is the incentive to carry it through and complete! 
I can only deduce, they are playing two steps ahead here and are overstimulating the market so that many more rush into a purchase, and ore will be liable for SDTL once completed than will have otherwise been, all the while paying for solictiors, EA fees, new furniture etc pumping tax into the economy. 
Why on earth is it not from "instruction," which is easily verified by converyancers? 

By the "you should have mitigated for it months ago" arguement, where was the cut off then?!  3 months? 5 months before?! Its too variable! It should be able to be benefited from at the point of offer accepted or instruction (i.e the point at which parties have taken the action and decision incentivised by the SDTL holiday as was it's purpose) , or at the very least "exchange" where it's legally bound to happen.