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Is bitcoin just a giant game of “chicken”?
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You clearly don't understand the bitcoin value proposition, and that's ok. Take care!0
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lozzy1965 said:However, there are companies with very little in the way of assets, and there are very few companies with enough assets to filter through to an actual payment to shareholders, after all liabilities are met in the event the company is wound up.lozzy1965 said:However, it's just this "zero sum game" thing I have an issue with2
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sebtomato said:Adyinvestment said:A huge catalyst for Bitcoin will be if/when a Bitcoin ETF is approved by the SEC (anticipated by many this year) and eventually FCA.
Once/if this happens and there is easy access in pensions etc I would expect a tremendous amount of money to go into Bitcoin - at this point it will be here to stay.
This is a typical Bitcoin hater post, you need to look past your own views and see how widely this has been accepted in the US and other countries.
Canada and Brazil have already approved Bitcoin ETF's
But it is the US that matters the most - 47 million Americans owned Bitcoin in May, and has more than doubled since the month before. A recent survey suggests that 72% of adult Americans owned Cryptocurrency, this is more than the 64% that owned stocks.
In what reality are the US government going to outright ban Bitcoin/Crypto and p off 72% of their voting population? Sure they will work out a way to regulate it but not ban it.2 -
Adyinvestment said:sebtomato said:Adyinvestment said:A huge catalyst for Bitcoin will be if/when a Bitcoin ETF is approved by the SEC (anticipated by many this year) and eventually FCA.
Once/if this happens and there is easy access in pensions etc I would expect a tremendous amount of money to go into Bitcoin - at this point it will be here to stay.
This is a typical Bitcoin hater post, you need to look past your own views and see how widely this has been accepted in the US and other countries.
Canada and Brazil have already approved Bitcoin ETF's
But it is the US that matters the most - 47 million Americans owned Bitcoin in May, and has more than doubled since the month before. A recent survey suggests that 72% of adult Americans owned Cryptocurrency, this is more than the 64% that owned stocks.
In what reality are the US government going to outright ban Bitcoin/Crypto and p off 72% of their voting population? Sure they will work out a way to regulate it but not ban it.
These two are well known Bitcoin Maxi's but it's still a good watch:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxFSJZBrclI
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Adyinvestment said:sebtomato said:Adyinvestment said:A huge catalyst for Bitcoin will be if/when a Bitcoin ETF is approved by the SEC (anticipated by many this year) and eventually FCA.
Once/if this happens and there is easy access in pensions etc I would expect a tremendous amount of money to go into Bitcoin - at this point it will be here to stay.
Canada and Brazil have already approved Bitcoin ETF's
But it is the US that matters the most - 47 million Americans owned Bitcoin in May, and has more than doubled since the month before. A recent survey suggests that 72% of adult Americans owned Cryptocurrency, this is more than the 64% that owned stocks.
In what reality are the US government going to outright ban Bitcoin/Crypto and p off 72% of their voting population? Sure they will work out a way to regulate it but not ban it.
Last time I looked, there wasn't that many wallets worldwide. Those survey % must include pensions, surely there's only a small minority of americans who invest outside their pensions (5-10% I would guess). The majority can't come up with $1,000 for an emergency.
No one has ever become poor by giving0 -
thegentleway said:Hi, I'm interested in where you get the 47 million Americans own Bitcoin from? and the survey details?
Last time I looked, there wasn't that many wallets worldwide. Those survey % must include pensions, surely there's only a small minority of americans who invest outside their pensions (5-10% I would guess). The majority can't come up with $1,000 for an emergency.
About 46 Million Americans Now Own Bitcoin | Nasdaq
Here is the link to the 72% survey
More Americans own cryptocurrencies than shares - CreditDonkey data (thearmchairtrader.com)
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Scottex99 said:How is it a minority?Because if I want to cash out a 5x profit from Bitcoin, either someone has to lose five times as much money as I stake, or five people have to lose as much money as I stake, or ten people have to lose half as much money as I stake, or some equivalent combination.Every large-scale zero sum game in the world, whether lotteries, poker tournaments or Bitcoin, involves a minority of people cashing out large profits at the expense of a larger number of people making losses.It is theoretically possible for a majority of players to cash out at a profit if rich schmucks invest vastly more than them and lose it. A rich schmuck might sit down at a poker table with five sharks and get cleaned out, meaning 5/6 players walk away from a zero sum game in profit. On a large scale like Bitcoin it doesn't happen.0
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Here is the link to the 72% survey
More Americans own cryptocurrencies than shares - CreditDonkey data (thearmchairtrader.com)
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Those who got some bitcoin early made a profit. Those getting in now can only profit if some bigger fool buys their bitcoin at a higher price when they want to sell. Bitcoin, in and of itself, cannot increase its value. It is just a speculative token.
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Malthusian said:Scottex99 said:How is it a minority?Because if I want to cash out a 5x profit from Bitcoin, either someone has to lose five times as much money as I stake, or five people have to lose as much money as I stake, or ten people have to lose half as much money as I stake, or some equivalent combination.Every large-scale zero sum game in the world, whether lotteries, poker tournaments or Bitcoin, involves a minority of people cashing out large profits at the expense of a larger number of people making losses.It is theoretically possible for a majority of players to cash out at a profit if rich schmucks invest vastly more than them and lose it. A rich schmuck might sit down at a poker table with five sharks and get cleaned out, meaning 5/6 players walk away from a zero sum game in profit. On a large scale like Bitcoin it doesn't happen.
How does your zero sum thesis play out if BTC increases steadily over the next 10-100-1000 years?
I buy at 5k, sell some at 40k, but the person who buys from me doesn't lose anything as it's now worth 100k. When does the zero sum kick in? Anyone who has bought BTC in 95% of the assets history is in profit, so all the losers only lost out in the last 6 months?
I did actually google it and found the usual BTC FUD from the non-believers, but I also found this:If not for the fact that Bitcoin serves more uses than simply speculation, I would say yes.
However, Bitcoin does far more than that. It is intrinsically valuable as a store of value and a means of exchange in addition to being a vehicle for speculation.
You can do things with Bitcoin that you can't do with other things. That makes it 'worth' more than just its dollar value. In that sense, it is very much a positive-sum game.
That's better than my answer, but yeah its not zero sum0
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