Funeral options

SevenOfNine

Bolt1234 said:

He has strong family ties to the graveyard and he was brought up as a child in the area hence the wish.

Sadly, that may make no difference to the Church, so it really is best to check that first. 

My FiL has his parent's ashes in a local Church graveyard, he AND his deceased father were bellringers there for many, many years, there's even photo's of them in the Church's bell tower. When FiL died that made no difference, the answer was still no.  There's an adjoining graveyard run by the council, so in the end it made little difference, still in view of that Church & the sound of the bells. 

If the Church say no I'm not sure I'd tell this man, but maybe see what 'plan B' could be if necessary.

Technosaurus

Hi Bolt1234 - I'm a Humanist Funeral celebrant and this sort of query comes up quite regularly. It hinges on what sort of graveyard it is but assuming it's a parish churchyard (as you mention strong family ties), it is covered in the Burial Laws Amendment Act of 1880...

In a nutshell (and quoting from the practice note for Humanist Celebrants):
• Humanists (and all non-religious people) like everyone else have a right to burial (which includes burial of ashes) in the parish churchyard
• Forty-eight hours notice must be given to the incumbent (i.e. rector, vicar etc)
• The incumbent can designate the burial place within the churchyard.
• The incumbent may not insist on any role in the proceedings. This is a decision for the relatives or other representatives of the deceased.
• The burial can take place without any religious service but must be conducted in a decent and orderly manner.

Worth noting that this only applies to England, Wales and the Channel Islands. It's not applicable in Scotland or Northern Ireland.

In my experience, vicars/priests are largely unaware of this law themselves but are usually quite understanding once it's shown to them. 

Things get slightly murkier if it's a different type of graveyard (consecrated v non-consecrated) but in the event that the church does not allow you to do a full burial there, then you can have a Humanist service elsewhere (eg a crematorium) and then the priest can do a second service to inter the body in the religious ground - I once did one where we did the service at a funeral director's own premises, then went to the graveside at a church and the priest was ok to let me say a few words, then he led a prayer at the end to keep his paymasters happy! 

Having half a burial in one place and then the rest of the burial elsewhere would be quite an unusual and expensive way of doing it. But there are plenty of options to have a service anywhere you like and then bury the body at the church at the end. eg I once did a lovely service for a teacher where we did the service around the coffin in her old school hall before heading to the burial ground at the end.

 

Technosaurus

Bolt1234 - I've just re-read one of your posts and it seems that the body may not technically qualify as a parishioner if they no longer live in the area, but again the family ties should be enough to mean any church will be able to show some compassion and I'd be amazed if no compromise can be reached as per the other details in my previous post

thepurplepixie

When I arranged my uncles funeral he lived a stone's throw from the parish boundary of what had been his family church all his life, he was baptised  and married there.  We couldn't bury him there, there were very few plots available and they had a strict rule that they were for people in the parish.  We had a cremation and were allowed to bury his ashes there.

Bolt1234

Thank you everyone for your advice.  They don't want to start organising things now and things will change in time.  There is no plot reserved although a couple of family members are buried there.  The concern is that that the funeral itself will 250 miles from the final resting place.  Effectively I guess there are likely to be two cermonies.

I agree with a PP as well, best not to say to the gentlemen that its not possible/maybe possible etc.  When the time comes my friend will see what the latest position is. 

Tech - could they have the funeral in say a local Woodland Burial Site and then arrange for the body to be moved immediately afterwards to Devon for the burial perhaps the next day?

Technosaurus

Bolt1234 said:

Tech - could they have the funeral in say a local Woodland Burial Site and then arrange for the body to be moved immediately afterwards to Devon for the burial perhaps the next day?

Bolt1234 - yes, this is perfectly possible although as I said quite an unusual way of doing it. I can't see why you'd need a Woodland Burial Funeral and then bury the body somewhere else. You could have the funeral service anywhere you like (crematorium, funeral director premises, your back garden, even in a public house!) and then take the body to Devon later anyway.

If you are after the "theatre" of a burial ground - ie people stood around a plot and the coffin being lowered etc even if it's all for show and the coffin is retrieved later to take to Devon - bear in mind they will charge you to dig the hole even if you then don't leave the body there (that is basically how their business makes money). This is why I'd deem it an unusual request and probably a very expensive way of doing it. But it's certainly possible.

Technosaurus

Bolt1234 said:

 The concern is that that the funeral itself will 250 miles from the final resting place.  Effectively I guess there are likely to be two cermonies.

And this bit is nothing to worry about - it's more common than you might think due to the way of the world these days. The main concern is whether the 'second' service is permitted to be where the deceased would ideally like it. But as per the various responses there are ways and means of doing that

gettingtheresometime

Bolt1234 said:

Thank you everyone for your advice.  They don't want to start organising things now and things will change in time.  There is no plot reserved although a couple of family members are buried there.  The concern is that that the funeral itself will 250 miles from the final resting place.  Effectively I guess there are likely to be two cermonies.

I agree with a PP as well, best not to say to the gentlemen that its not possible/maybe possible etc.  When the time comes my friend will see what the latest position is. 

Tech - could they have the funeral in say a local Woodland Burial Site and then arrange for the body to be moved immediately afterwards to Devon for the burial perhaps the next day?

Whilst I appreciate that they don't want to start planning now or mention it to the gentleman concerned, would it not be an idea to at least enquire what the situation would be re the internment?
It might give them some time to at least think of a Plan B because personally I couldn't imagine anything worse than having to come up with such a plan when all I wanted to do was grieve.

Robin9

Whilst I appreciate that they don't want to start planning now or mention it to the gentleman concerned, would it not be an idea to at least enquire what the situation would be re the internment?
It might give them some time to at least think of a Plan B because personally I couldn't imagine anything worse than having to come up with such a plan when all I wanted to do was grieve.

I do agree - the more that can be provisionally put into place before the event the better -  readings, music.

There's no need to be two services - the Funeral Director at the final resting place can collect the body from a local FD.

TBagpuss

Bolt1234 said:

Thank you everyone for your advice.  They don't want to start organising things now and things will change in time.  There is no plot reserved although a couple of family members are buried there.  The concern is that that the funeral itself will 250 miles from the final resting place.  Effectively I guess there are likely to be two cermonies.

I agree with a PP as well, best not to say to the gentlemen that its not possible/maybe possible etc.  When the time comes my friend will see what the latest position is. 

Tech - could they have the funeral in say a local Woodland Burial Site and then arrange for the body to be moved immediately afterwards to Devon for the burial perhaps the next day?

Would it be important to him  / the family that the body was actually present at the ceremony?
Having a ceremony of remembrance / farewell need not require the presence of the coffin/ body, and it might be logistically easier to have a separate burial but to have the ceremony without the body - wither before or after the burial takes place.  It would of course depend on the family but it might be a way of honouring the spirit of his wishes so they felt they were doing as he wanted, while making the practical arrangements a bit less complicated. 

Perhaps his family could have a further conversation with him about what his aims / wishes are? (Equally, it might be easier to arrange to inter or scatter ashes than to have a full burial, particularly is space is limited on the graveyard he has his eye on. 

in terms of the burial, I think a lot would depend on how close his connection is to the parish where he wishes to be buried -  if he counts as a parishioner (normally requires that he lives in the Parish and/or is on the church electoral roll*)  then he would have the right to be buried there, but if not, then I think it would be at the discretion of the vicar or local bishop - maybe someone in the family could make enquiries and see how receptive they are 

(  *He could also get in by making sure he died in the parish, but of course that's rather more difficult to arrange! )