Old electrics & EICR

fenwick458

are all 3 consumer units for your flat? or are they on the communal area, for 3 different flats?

Heedtheadvice

"I said somewhere that I'm renting from an old-school London landlord. "

Apologies, so you did. I must have missed that.

I can well understand the wish to not be disturbed in daily life by "renovations" and improvement but you do seem to be ignoring some very important aspects.

The law, possibility of criminal acts (your landlord might be glad to not end up in court if he/she is so old school to be unaware of the required duty of care); what is owing to you and the other tenants to protect you from harm, perhaps you do not value your life, those of your visitors, your neighbours etc. or just the loss of income if you needed to be hospitalised.

Now that might just seem overkill to you. The risks might be small but if they materialise the impact is quite big, potentially life changing. That is one good reason to insist (in the nicest possible way) for an EICR.

There has been quite a bit of good advice in this thread, that you have given thanks for, but seem to have decided to ignore where safety and legal issues are involved.

I cannot post more except to suggest you take notice!

Ectophile

It's hard to say if the place will need rewiring until after an EICR is done.  That's really the whole point of having the EICR.

Black and red cable by itself isn't a problem.  Pretty much all indoor wiring since the mid 1960's has been PVC insulated, and PVC seems to last forever.  It's the older rubber cable that's a problem.  Much of that is on the verge of crumbling away as the rubber perishes.

Grizzlebeard

Poster_586329 said:

Thanks, Ectophile.

I've had a look in the loft and the light circuit looks like white PVC.   Not sure about the plug circuit.
*..loft picture..*

Older twin core and twin & earth PVC insulation tends to be grey, newer white.
By and large the grey stuff's still as safe as the white.
Don't want to push for yet more expense and agro but a bit of thermal insulation up there wouldn't go amiss.
Totally understand your good relationship with Landlord and should be preserved for as long as possible. Crunch point might come when the other two flats are made smart.

fenwick458

Grizzlebeard said:

Poster_586329 said:

Thanks, Ectophile.

I've had a look in the loft and the light circuit looks like white PVC.   Not sure about the plug circuit.
*..loft picture..*

Older twin core and twin & earth PVC insulation tends to be grey, newer white.
By and large the grey stuff's still as safe as the white.
Don't want to push for yet more expense and agro but a bit of thermal insulation up there wouldn't go amiss.
Totally understand your good relationship with Landlord and should be preserved for as long as possible. Crunch point might come when the other two flats are made smart.

White T&E is low smoke & fume (LSF), usually used in commercial jobs
If it was me I'd want RCD protection, but if you are not that fussed about it you can just do nothing and wait untill the EICR gets done (which will surely be soon now all landlords can't ignore it) and it will probably get upgraded after that. guess it all depends on the electrician and how they code it

Risteard

Grizzlebeard said:

Poster_586329 said:

Thanks, Ectophile.

I've had a look in the loft and the light circuit looks like white PVC.   Not sure about the plug circuit.
*..loft picture..*

Older twin core and twin & earth PVC insulation tends to be grey, newer white.
By and large the grey stuff's still as safe as the white.
Don't want to push for yet more expense and agro but a bit of thermal insulation up there wouldn't go amiss.
Totally understand your good relationship with Landlord and should be preserved for as long as possible. Crunch point might come when the other two flats are made smart.

New T&E only has a white sheath if it's LSF/LS0H cable.

Grizzlebeard

Risteard said:

Grizzlebeard said:

Poster_586329 said:

... snip ...
I've had a look in the loft and the light circuit looks like white PVC.   Not sure about the plug circuit.
*..loft picture..*

Older twin core and twin & earth PVC insulation tends to be grey, newer white.
By and large the grey stuff's still as safe as the white.
... snip ...

New T&E only has a white sheath if it's LSF/LS0H cable.

Yeah, I know and appreciate. Only making the point that the old grey stuff isn't more likely to fail and catch fire in the first place.
Hence the "by and large" bit.
A good point to make though.
More saliently, old grey/red+black PVC on a 5A lighting circuit might be missing the earth. Not so likely on a 30A ring.

bris

Ectophile said:

  By now, all rented properties should have had an electrical safety inspection, and should have been updated at least to the 2018 electrical standards.

Failing to carry out the inspection is a criminal offence.  Failing to fix any faults identified by the inspection is also an offence.

No totally incorrect. Yes they need by law to carry out an EICR every 5 years but bringing it up to 2018 standard, no.

It has to be safe, obviously but it needs to be safe to the regulations at the time of install. in this case no RCD protection is required except for exterior outlets. The EICR engineer will determine whether the protective devices will operate properly and with the time limits for the type of safety device installed or not, As far as it goes now it would be a  C3 improvement recommended unless there is any other issues picked up.

[Deleted User]

Thank you, bris, that's very helpful to know!

Ectophile

bris said:

Ectophile said:

  By now, all rented properties should have had an electrical safety inspection, and should have been updated at least to the 2018 electrical standards.

Failing to carry out the inspection is a criminal offence.  Failing to fix any faults identified by the inspection is also an offence.

No totally incorrect. Yes they need by law to carry out an EICR every 5 years but bringing it up to 2018 standard, no.

It has to be safe, obviously but it needs to be safe to the regulations at the time of install. in this case no RCD protection is required except for exterior outlets. The EICR engineer will determine whether the protective devices will operate properly and with the time limits for the type of safety device installed or not, As far as it goes now it would be a  C3 improvement recommended unless there is any other issues picked up.

It doesn't just need to be "safe".  It needs to be safe when measured against the 18th edition wiring regulations.

3.—(1) A private landlord(1) who grants or intends to grant a specified tenancy must—

(a)ensure that the electrical safety standards are met during any period when the residential premises(2) are occupied under a specified tenancy;

And it defines the "electrical safety standards" as:

“electrical safety standards” means the standards for electrical installations in the eighteenth edition of the Wiring Regulations, published by the Institution of Engineering and Technology and the British Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2018(3);

So all rented properties must meet the 18th edition - BS7681:2018.
Government guidance says that anything that is only a C3 can be ignored.  Anything that warrants a C1 or C2 when measured against the 18th edition is a fail.