Followed Tv license rules

uk1

BBC sounds is separate from Iplayer. 

Mickey666

pphillips said:

uk1 said:

By way of a court order?  If so I wonder whether the order was properly secured.

A witness statement is provided voluntarily by a witness, you don't need a court order to get one.

Yes, but in this case wouldn't the witness be divulging personal data, which would be against the data protection laws.  My understanding is that a court order would be required in order to allow such personal data to be divulged without breaking the law and I can't imagine that Sky would voluntarily provide such personal date without being compelled to do so by a court.

pphillips

Cornucopia said:

McNamara is an unusual case, even for the "bad old days".   I would caution against drawing any conclusions from it today = a lot has changed.

The reason why I said it was an interesting choice is because it is the case that TVL cite if you challenge their decision not to remind interviewees of their entire range of PACE rights.   Other, newer case law throws some doubt on its validity.  

I think it's an important case was because it clarifies that:
1. Owning a TV and not have a licence is not an offence 
2. It states the correct point to administer a caution 
3. A prosecution can still succeed without self-incrimination

uk1

I think that if Sky provided this information without a court order we would probably have heard about it. 

Cornucopia

uk1 said:

BBC sounds is separate from Iplayer. 

Still needs a BBC ID though.

Okay, I just signed up and it now seems to be called a BBC Account.   It didn't ask me to actively confirm I have/don't have a TV Licence.   Maybe it would do that the first time I tried to watch a TV program?

uk1

pphillips said:

Cornucopia said:

McNamara is an unusual case, even for the "bad old days".   I would caution against drawing any conclusions from it today = a lot has changed.

The reason why I said it was an interesting choice is because it is the case that TVL cite if you challenge their decision not to remind interviewees of their entire range of PACE rights.   Other, newer case law throws some doubt on its validity.  

I think it's an important case was because it clarifies that:
1. Owning a TV and not have a licence is not an offence 
2. It states the correct point to administer a caution 
3. A prosecution can still succeed without self-incrimination

But probably not without a court order.  At that point or earlier the suspect would see the game was up and would have been ill-advised to not payup.

pphillips

uk1 said:

I think that if Sky provided this information without a court order we would probably have heard about it. 

I think you're confused, a witness statement is a court document (not a court order) it sets out in writing the evidence that proves a fact alleged by one of the parties to the case and it's one of the main ways that a court receives evidence.

Cornucopia

pphillips said:

I think it's an important case was because it clarifies that:
1. Owning a TV and not have a licence is not an offence 
2. It states the correct point to administer a caution 
3. A prosecution can still succeed without self-incrimination

1 - yes. 

2 - I have my doubts about the logic of it.   If they weren't on a fishing expedition then there would be no issue reading the caution as soon as the person has identified themselves as the householder.  

3 - yes, for example if they see a TV playing a broadcast when the door is opened.   These days a Sky contract is not 100% evidence of evasion, though.   

uk1

I promise you that I am not in the slightest confused so I’ll ask again.

Do you know as a fact that Sky provided the statement voluntarily?

Cornucopia

uk1 said:

I’ll ask again.

Do you know as a fact that Sky provided the statement voluntarily?

I imagine that we don't really know, and what does "voluntary" mean in this context, anyway?

TVL would have asked whether there was a contract in place at the address, and Sky would have said yes.   I'm not convinced that personal data would have been compromised in that exchange.