DCBL/ I Park court papers

Alanthebear

Redx said:

If it was about 12 minutes , download and read the relevant CoP because grace periods are involved , yet nothing is mentioned above

Get rid of 5 , Beavis case killed that argument 6 years ago

OK, Grace period according to the CoP is 10 minutes, signs state payment to be made within 10 minutes of entering the car park but doesn't specifically reference it as a grace period. Could I argue that leaving could have taken 2 minutes? Or that 2 minutes is a petty amount of time to argue about?

Redx

Correct , the first grace period is time to read the signs , the second is to leave , especially when it can take time to exit due to waiting for the vehicles in front to depart , especially at busy times , so think about why it took longer than the ten minutes

Alanthebear

Thanks for all the help, I've reposted the paragraphs below. Let me know what you think.

2.    It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question but liability is denied.

3.  The Defendant first heard about this charge by post, months later. The Defendant was living and working in Scotland at the time and unable to return to their home address due to Covid and supplied this address to the Claimant. Despite this, correspondence was still sent to the Defendant’s address in England. This caused an unnecessary delay in the Defendant receiving correspondence and meant that the Defendant missed the opportunity to appeal using the Claimants procedures in the ’Notice to Keeper’. Both the Defendant and household members who had to assist with passing on correspondence felt harassed by the bombardment of ‘debt recovery’ letters.

4. The allegation appears to relate to a period of parking totalling 12 minutes and 7 seconds, as detailed in the Notice to Keeper. The only evidence supplied to support this are ANPR images of the Defendant’s car entering and leaving the car park in question and not evidence of the car parked at any time. These images do not allow for time taken to drive through the car park on entering and leaving and to find a parking space. The ANPR system only records time on site, not time parked. The Claimant has provided no proof that the car was parked. Further, the Claimant alleges that no pay and display ticket or prepay arrangement was purchased yet has not provided any evidence of this.

5. Car park signage at the time of the allegation states that ‘payment is required within 10 minutes of entering the car park’ yet no consideration has been given for time taken to leave if the driver declined to agree to the Claimants terms. The event happened on a Saturday at 3.20pm therefore it is entirely possible that a large number of vehicles were attempting to park and/or leave at the same time due to access to local shops. ANPR images show that the narrow entrance/ exit to the car park only allow for 1 vehicle to enter or leave at a time. This, combined with giving way to traffic on the street means that leaving the car park in question could have taken over 2 minutes, explaining the 12 minutes and 7 seconds time difference between ANPR images.

Alanthebear

Hi everyone

Coming back to the thread as I'm getting my witness statement together and I have a phone dispute resolution hearing.

I've received the claimants witness statement but I have a question for you all regarding landowner permissions etc.
From my research the ppc must provide proof of agreement between them and the landowner... they've included this agreement in their witness statement but the landowner is not the same entity as on the land registry site. In fact the owner on their evidence is a company called I Parksmart which is also a parking solutions company and also ran by the same guys who run I Park services. Is this something I can raise?

I'll post my witness statement when ive completed it, going to look at theirs now to see what I can 'reinforce'. They've mentioned a couple of times that I've used a template defence and am wasting their time, funny how all their letters are templates but they're worth charging £60 extra for!

Le_Kirk

Yep, you are right to ignore the "template defence" nonsense!
What is required is a contract flowing from the landowner to the parking company rather than just an agreement and it must be signed in accordance with the Companies act.  One of the regulars @Fruitcake regularly posts about contracts and how they must be signed. 
Here is one such post: -
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78185136#Comment_78185136

Alanthebear

Thanks for sending that link. I've attached the agreement they've used in their witness statement. So am I right in thinking I should use the land registry info I have as evidence that there is no landowner link therefore no proof of contract?

Alanthebear

Another point from their witness statement. My argument that time spent in car park (12 minutes) falls within 10 minutes consideration and 5 minutes grace to leave. They have quoted the below from the BPA CoP (despite being an IPC member, shouldn't they be quoting their CoP?)

 The Land operates with a 10-minute grace period to purchase a parking ticket or review the Terms and Conditions of parking and exit the Land if they wish. This is made very clear on the signage on site and is in line with the Section 13.1 of the BPA Code of Practice which states; “The driver must have the chance to consider the Terms and Conditions before entering into the ‘parking contract’ with you. If, having had that opportunity, the driver decides not to park but chooses to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable consideration period to leave before the driver can be bound by your parking contract. The amount of time in these instances will vary dependant on site size and type but it must be a minimum of 5 minutes”

By their own admission has the driver not complied with this? Am I allowed to reference their witness statement in my own or do I need to word it differently?

thanks

D_P_Dance

Have you read this?

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2014/03/waiting-for-space-is-not-parking.html

have you complained to your MP/

Jenni_D

What date of PCN does the claim relate to? (This will determine which version of the CoP relates to the claim)

Are you 100% sure that I-Park are IPC AOS members? (I can't access their website on my work laptop).

Yes, if something in their WS supports your own position then use it. (Someone recently successfully defended a claim by using the images in the Claimant's own WS)  

Le_Kirk

From the IPC web site today: -

I Park Services LTD (Trading As I Park Services)
www.iparkservices.co.uk
Company Bio