Head gasket went on a brand new (to me) van, bought from a dealer, with a warranty

Chhrispy

Hi, hopefully someone out there can help me. Even if it's just to point me in the right direction, that would be much appreciated too. I am significantly out of my depth, and panic is setting in!

A few weeks ago (late April 2021) I bought a van from a dealer - a 65 plate Vauxhall Vivaro. I paid over £9k, which is a lot of money to me. All seemed ok on the test drive. Van came with a 3 month 'gold' warranty.

I only did little trips here and there for the first couple of weeks. 3 weeks later (this past Sunday), I did my first long journey in it. I have covered less than 200 miles in the van in total.

On the journey, travelling around 65mph, a light popped up on the dash, saying 'STOP. Engine failure hazard'.

Obviously we stopped, and used google to try and diagnose the problem. We traced it down to needing some coolant. We bought coolant, topped it up, waited for a while so it could cool down. Started it, no warning lights, set off again. Not long into the journey, the light came on again. Then it went off, then came on - it was basically just being intermittent. A further google search pointed to maybe being a dodgy sensor. We made the decision to drive slowly home.

I got home, I stalled backing into the drive, and the engine wouldn't start again. We waited for ages, with the van completely blocking the road, then attempted to start it again. Eventually it did, after 20 minutes or so, and I managed to get it onto the drive. At this point is was 11pm, we left it to sort in the morning.

In the morning, AA assistance came out (paid for by the warranty company, who have actually been great). He diagnosed that a previous service or repair had included a hose clip that was mounted the wrong way round, which over time had rubbed against the coolant hose, and then struck a leak. Then due to overheating, the head gasket has gone. (I am no mechanic, but's that's the situation as I understand it).

The van was recovered by the warranty company, and taken away to the dealer's preferred garage, where they will be repairing it under warranty.

The problem is that I don't want a repair, I want a refund. I need a van I can trust. I work on events, and I bought the van in anticipation of the world opening up again. If I break down on the way to a booking it could completely ruin my reputation and destroy my business. Even if the van gets repaired, I don't think I'll ever trust it. I've asked the dealer for a full refund, but they are basically saying no. They have said on the phone that because I didn't get it recovered as soon as the stop light came on, they won't refund me. They will still repair it though, so something doesn't add up to me. Surely if I caused a problem myself, that would void the warranty too?

Did I mention that I paid over £9000?!?!

I would class breaking down so soon (literally the first proper journey I did in it) as not fit for purpose, particularly as the rubbing hose clip should have been noticed in their pre-sales check, and their pre sales service? A google search seems to indicate that I should be entitled to a refund, but I'm having difficulty figuring out exactly where I stand.

Where do I stand? Help?

Thank you

Chris

Grumpy_chap

This is a bit complicated.
Had the van broken within 3 weeks, then the likelihood is the Dealer would be liable.  Consumer rules are a fault present or developing at the time of sales gives you a right to reject within 30 days.  This is a van, though, purchased for your events business so a B2B transaction and consumer rules do not apply.
Unfortunately, your actions may have contributed to the further deterioration.

As I understand it, you saw this light:

Which the manual says:


But instead of following what the manual said, or calling the breakdown service, you looked on Google and did something else and drove 20 minutes, so a good few miles even slowly, home.  If you were going to look on Google, the manual for the vehicle would have been the best thing to Google and then follow that.

What does the warranty company say?
What does the supplying dealer say?

I see that:

Chhrispy said:

The van was recovered by the warranty company, and taken away to the dealer's preferred garage, where they will be repairing it under warranty.

And:

Chhrispy said:

I've asked the dealer for a full refund, but they are basically saying no. They have said on the phone that because I didn't get it recovered as soon as the stop light came on, they won't refund me. 

Given the dealer knows about your contributory negligence, a full refund may prove very difficult to obtain now. 

RE:

Chhrispy said:

They will still repair it though, so something doesn't add up to me. Surely if I caused a problem myself, that would void the warranty too?

If the warranty company get to know about your possible contributory actions, then it may void the warranty.  However, the dealer has paid for the warranty as an insurance premium, so it costs the dealer nothing more for you to get the van repaired by the warranty company and, presumably, the dealer is keeping quiet about you driving the van after the original fault.

The best you can do is likely to accept the repair and then either keep the van, or if your trust in the van is that low, sell and buy another.

You may wish to ask the forum moderators to move this thread to the Motoring forum.

JJ_Egan

Light came on  a leak of coolant  .

Vehicle stopped and not used probably head gasket ok .

Vehicle driven lack of coolant and blew head gasket .

Al_Ross

JJ_Egan said:

Light came on  a leak of coolant  .

Vehicle stopped and not used probably head gasket ok .

Vehicle driven lack of coolant and blew head gasket .

Possible but unlikely as dealer would have most likely had correct coolant levels in.

Most likely when the van overheated the first time the head got warped. The heads can be re-planed or replaced and another gasket fitted.

Chhrispy

Grumpy_chap said:

This is a bit complicated.
Had the van broken within 3 weeks, then the likelihood is the Dealer would be liable.  Consumer rules are a fault present or developing at the time of sales gives you a right to reject within 30 days.  This is a van, though, purchased for your events business so a B2B transaction and consumer rules do not apply.

Thanks Grumpy! I really appreciate you taking the time to give such a thorough response.

I'm just a person, didn't buy through a company etc. I'm a sole trader working on a freelance basis, so surely it's the same as anyone else driving a vehicle to work? Exactly as you said, this is a fault that has happened in the first 30 days?

Grumpy_chap said:

But instead of following what the manual said, or calling the breakdown service, you looked on Google and did something else and drove 20 minutes, so a good few miles even slowly, home.  If you were going to look on Google, the manual for the vehicle would have been the best thing to Google and then follow that.

What does the warranty company say?
What does the supplying dealer say?

Sorry if I wasn't clear. We stopped, thought we'd fixed the problem by adding coolant, and then continued. The 20 mins was how long we waited to be able to start it again. The google results were of the manual. Once the light had gone surely it's safe to assume that the issue is rectified?

All my interactions have been with the dealer, who are saying it's covered under warranty to be fixed. My thoughts are they sold me something not fit for purpose.

Grumpy_chap said:

Given the dealer knows about your contributory negligence, a full refund may prove very difficult to obtain now. 

Does it count as negligence? I mean I did all within my power to fix it, and the light went off, leading me to believe the issue was fixed.

Grumpy_chap said:

If the warranty company get to know about your possible contributory actions, then it may void the warranty.  However, the dealer has paid for the warranty as an insurance premium, so it costs the dealer nothing more for you to get the van repaired by the warranty company and, presumably, the dealer is keeping quiet about you driving the van after the original fault.

The best you can do is likely to accept the repair and then either keep the van, or if your trust in the van is that low, sell and buy another.

You may wish to ask the forum moderators to move this thread to the Motoring forum.

My general policy in life is always to be as honest as possible. What happened is as I said, and I haven't tried to hide any of it. It works both ways though. Surely a dealer servicing a vehicle before they sold it would be aware of the hose clip thing? They may even have been the ones that put it on wrong. Could it not be argued that by not noticing it, or even adding the issue themselves, that they were negligent and sold a vehicle not fit for purpose?

neilmcl

I think you're going to have to stick with the repair. Consumer rights don't apply here as was mentioned this is a B2B purchase so you won't be able to reject outright within 30 days as you would normally would have done as a consumer. The Sale of Goods Act (SOGA) does still apply for business purchases and as such the seller is allowed to repair should they choose.

Chhrispy

neilmcl said:

I think you're going to have to stick with the repair. Consumer rights don't apply here as was mentioned this is a B2B purchase so you won't be able to reject outright within 30 days as you would normally would have done as a consumer. The Sale of Goods Act (SOGA) does still apply for business purchases and as such the seller is allowed to repair should they choose.

Just to clarify, I didn't buy it through a business. It was going to be the day to day runaround, family car, and obviously also used for freelance work. Just like anyone else who owns a car does.

Does that really count as a business buying it?

Thanks!

comeandgo

Chhrispy said:

neilmcl said:

I think you're going to have to stick with the repair. Consumer rights don't apply here as was mentioned this is a B2B purchase so you won't be able to reject outright within 30 days as you would normally would have done as a consumer. The Sale of Goods Act (SOGA) does still apply for business purchases and as such the seller is allowed to repair should they choose.

Just to clarify, I didn't buy it through a business. It was going to be the day to day runaround, family car, and obviously also used for freelance work. Just like anyone else who owns a car does.

Does that really count as a business buying it?

Thanks!

Yes, you are a sole trader using the van for business.

MSE_ForumTeam5

We've moved this from Consumer Rights to the Motoring board

Username03725

You're on shaky ground expecting a full refund, but your issue really is that you won't trust the repair whereas in reality there's no reason not to. It'll be fixed at some point, that's when you insist that the repair is tested properly with a long drive, an independent inspection if you can stretch to it and some negotiation with the dealer that this resets the warrant on the engine at least. Reality is that if the repair is done properly it'll be more reliable than it was before it failed, which as you've pointed out was due to nothing more than an incorrectly fitted hose clip. You'll spend the next 2 or 3 months expecting it to fail, then wondering if it will, then it'll be something that happened 6 months ago and the van will be fine.

Or as someone else said, get it fixed then sell it. You'll be out of pocket though.

AdrianC

I'm with the others...

The supplier may have been liable for the chafed hose, but not for the head gasket failure that occurred through continuing to drive it after it ran out of coolant.

Does the van have a temp gauge on the dash? What did that do BEFORE the light came on? What was it doing while you were driving around after the initial top-up?

Had you checked the fluid levels at all during the three weeks you'd owned it?
What does the owner's handbook say about fluid checks? Weekly?

And, yes, a sole trader buying it for work purposes is a business purchase - so outwith the scope of the CRA.

As for the relevance of £9k... Whilst it's a reasonable chunk of change, ultimately, it's a 6yo vehicle. Van prices have gone mad since lockdown. Get the HG changed, and be more diligent in your fluid checks and understanding what the dashboard is telling you. Mechanical sympathy is not a bad thing.