UKCPM & Gladstones - County Court Defence

D_P_Dance

I know only one person on this board and he rarely comment on defences.  However, like a No 11 bus, someone will be along shortly 

kimaru

D_P_Dance said:

I know only one person on this board and he rarely comment on defences.  However, like a No 11 bus, someone will be along shortly 

No worries, thanks for your MP advice if things go south!

kimaru

@CouponMad Is there any chance you'd be able to offer your advice on my defence?

Coupon-mad

Difficult to advise as you've not told us any context. 

I mean this could be anything!  Is it a case of the driver:

(a)  bilking and dumping their car all day in a staff permit car park, or
(b)  a genuine resident moving into their own property where the photos only cover two minutes, or
(c)  a fluttering ticket (permit held but slipped out of view) or ...anything really! 

Tell us about the event and car park and why the driver parked there and how long they were captured for, by the photos?

Fruitcake

You should still send the SAR as per the NEWBIES. Include non-photo proof of ID with the request.

It's never too late to get a landowner cancellation.

Get pics of the site and signage ready for the exhibits stage.

kimaru

Coupon-mad said:

Difficult to advise as you've not told us any context. 

I mean this could be anything!  Is it a case of the driver:

(a)  bilking and dumping their car all day in a staff permit car park, or
(b)  a genuine resident moving into their own property where the photos only cover two minutes, or
(c)  a fluttering ticket (permit held but slipped out of view) or ...anything really! 

Tell us about the event and car park and why the driver parked there and how long they were captured for, by the photos?

Thanks for reaching out.
NTK:



Google Maps (Red dot was where the vehicle is pictured):

As the keeper, I was hoping to win the case by making it clear the NTK doesn't mention the period of time the vehicle was stationary. As in theory, any car could drive in, read the sign and drive out yet still receive a ticket as they were in the car park at "13:27". Would this be my best shot?

Thank you for pointing out there is a timestamp in the photos, I missed that completely!

It's almost impossible to see, but with a magnifying glass I think they're the following timestamps:

Photo 1

13:24:24

Photo 2

13:26:17 or 13:28:17

You can also see by the shadow in the photo that they were taken at a very similar time. 

kimaru

Fruitcake said:

You should still send the SAR as per the NEWBIES. Include non-photo proof of ID with the request.

It's never too late to get a landowner cancellation.

Get pics of the site and signage ready for the exhibits stage.

Thank you, I'll get onto that SAR right now. I don't think I'll get a landowner cancellation in my case.
I've got google maps pictures of the site but no picture of the signage unfortunately, as the site is a while away from me. Worst case scenario, I could drive up there and take a picture of the sign but it would be quite the trip.

Le_Kirk

If you are at the defence stage, you do not need photographs for evidence.  This is saved for the witness statement (WS) stage.  If you name the car park, maybe one of the regulars (or anybody who just happens to be reading your thread) can help by getting photos for you  For now, just concentrate on refuting what the POC states, and slip that into the standard defence template.

kimaru

Le_Kirk said:

If you are at the defence stage, you do not need photographs for evidence.  This is saved for the witness statement (WS) stage.  If you name the car park, maybe one of the regulars (or anybody who just happens to be reading your thread) can help by getting photos for you  For now, just concentrate on refuting what the POC states, and slip that into the standard defence template.

Thank you, that's a great idea.

Do you think my current defence is adequate?

Should I also add that the evidence doesn't show that the driver wasn't in the vehicle at the time of the photo and the short space of time between the photos?

Is my claim of FOPA non compliance void since there are tiny timestamps in the photo? (Technically showing a period of parking, if you have a magnifying glass).

I've also submitted my SAR now, hopefully I'll receive that before I have to submit my defence.

Le_Kirk

If you can honestly state you were not the driver (think what you would tell a judge in court if asked the direct question) and the NTK fails POFA for the reasons you state and you actually possess a permit, then I think it is a strong defence.  It is for the claimant to prove their case not for you to disprove it.  The judge in court will see the same photos you do and can make up their mind based on the evidence before them.  In your defence, if you state you do have a permit, then you can show this as evidence when it comes to witness statement (WS) stage.  The results from the SAR are unlikely to appear before the defence has to be submitted (10th June) but anyway will be handier for the WS stage.