EV Charging losses and Vampire drain.

JKenH

1961Nick said:

Martyn1981 said:

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

I came across the video in the post above in this thread (linked below) from Tesla Motors Club. I have quoted part of the opening post on the thread which highlights the difference between the driving consumption of the car and the actual energy consumption from the grid. It would be interesting if UK Tesla owners on this board were able to provide their own comparative statistics over lifetime ownership. 

Model Y actual energy consumption

I bought a new Model Y and have been driving it for a few weeks. According to the car, I've consumed about 185 Wh/km over the entire time. However, if I go with the Tesla App's charging stats, it actually works out to 279 Wh/km. If I consider energy as charged rather than as delivered, it's 317 Wh.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-y-actual-energy-consumption.284399/

My old Rolec charger had a meter module inside the box which indicated that the charging loss was just under 10% over time. Vampire drain was negligible as I didn't use sentry mode, dog mode, pre-conditioning or overheat protection - all of which eat power.

As long as you're only paying 7.5p/kWh for off peak power, the charging losses & vampire drain don't really add up to very much.

I'm not sure if using evidence and facts to debunk such myths is a good idea. If we aren't willing to pretend today, that they are a really big issue, then tomorrow, how are we going to be able to blame them all on immigration?

In future I will blame Boris & Brexit for my vampire drain.

Edit: original post deleted as it breached my personal code of conduct.  Apologies, Nick.

What I was trying to say is there is plenty of evidence (even if much of it is anecdotal) that charging losses and vampire drain /phantom losses exist so let’s not encourage people who would like to make out it a Left vs Right/ideological issue. 

thevilla

1961Nick said:

Martyn1981 said:

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

I came across the video in the post above in this thread (linked below) from Tesla Motors Club. I have quoted part of the opening post on the thread which highlights the difference between the driving consumption of the car and the actual energy consumption from the grid. It would be interesting if UK Tesla owners on this board were able to provide their own comparative statistics over lifetime ownership. 

Model Y actual energy consumption

I bought a new Model Y and have been driving it for a few weeks. According to the car, I've consumed about 185 Wh/km over the entire time. However, if I go with the Tesla App's charging stats, it actually works out to 279 Wh/km. If I consider energy as charged rather than as delivered, it's 317 Wh.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-y-actual-energy-consumption.284399/

My old Rolec charger had a meter module inside the box which indicated that the charging loss was just under 10% over time. Vampire drain was negligible as I didn't use sentry mode, dog mode, pre-conditioning or overheat protection - all of which eat power.

As long as you're only paying 7.5p/kWh for off peak power, the charging losses & vampire drain don't really add up to very much.

I'm not sure if using evidence and facts to debunk such myths is a good idea. If we aren't willing to pretend today, that they are a really big issue, then tomorrow, how are we going to be able to blame them all on immigration?

In future I will blame Boris & Brexit for my vampire drain.

Boris Karloff?

1961Nick

JKenH said:

Martyn1981 said:

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

I came across the video in the post above in this thread (linked below) from Tesla Motors Club. I have quoted part of the opening post on the thread which highlights the difference between the driving consumption of the car and the actual energy consumption from the grid. It would be interesting if UK Tesla owners on this board were able to provide their own comparative statistics over lifetime ownership. 

Model Y actual energy consumption

I bought a new Model Y and have been driving it for a few weeks. According to the car, I've consumed about 185 Wh/km over the entire time. However, if I go with the Tesla App's charging stats, it actually works out to 279 Wh/km. If I consider energy as charged rather than as delivered, it's 317 Wh.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-y-actual-energy-consumption.284399/

My old Rolec charger had a meter module inside the box which indicated that the charging loss was just under 10% over time. Vampire drain was negligible as I didn't use sentry mode, dog mode, pre-conditioning or overheat protection - all of which eat power.

As long as you're only paying 7.5p/kWh for off peak power, the charging losses & vampire drain don't really add up to very much.

I'm not sure if using evidence and facts to debunk such myths is a good idea. If we aren't willing to pretend today, that they are a really big issue, then tomorrow, how are we going to be able to blame them all on immigration?

I’m not sure what you are hoping to achieve by pretending vampire drain or charging losses are myths or conflating them with immigration. It seems almost as you are trying to bring tribal politics into a valid discussion on the realities of running an EV. Nobody has said they are really big issues but most people owning Teslas acknowledge they exist and those that don’t are in danger of losing credibility. 

Nick has attempted to quantify the charging losses he has experienced just as he has (in other threads) the roundtrip losses that occur with domestic solar batteries. Depending on the situation of how and where you charge your EV the losses will vary as will the impact on your wallet. 

In case you missed it here was my post about the highly respected YouTuber, Bjorn Nyland’s investigation of charging losses with a Tesla. 

Charging loss on Tesla Model 3 on AC and DC

Here is a YouTube video from Bjorn Nyland which contains the following table. Please see the video for explanation of the difference between the two 50kW results.

The result with the 2.3kW charger is better on the Tesla than I recall on my Leaf. Either the Tesla is more efficient at AC/DC conversion or I need to check my LeafSpy results again.

https://youtu.be/iLmIIe9N_aI

It would be good if we could have discussions on factual matters such as this without attempts being made to belittle contributors submissions by inferring in some way that they are acting out of prejudice or for political reasons. 

I've found the figures from the Rolec for the first year & the difference between the Rolec meter & the Tesla app are 8.9%. That's more than Nyland's 6.2% for a 7kWh charger but the difference could be down to defrosting the car while it was plugged in.

Defrosting & cabin preheat takes 5 minutes & would account for 0.6kWh from the charger. At that time I was on Octopus Go so a 4 hour charge was 28.8kWh. That 0.6kWh therefore represents 2% of the energy added during the previous charging session.

It's also apparent that the charging loss is much higher in winter due to battery pre-heating before charging commences. Unfortunately to read the Rolec meter you have to remove the front cover so the figures I have are too random to be precise. 

1961Nick

I've just extracted the charging figures from the Zappi for the past 31 days to compare with the Tesla app.

Zappi 242.6kWh
Tesla 228kWh

That's a charging loss of 6% which is near identical to Nyland's figure - No cabin preheating, cooling or battery conditioning at this time of year.

Martyn1981

I quite like Tesla's 'vent' mode on the phone app, for hot weather (if I remember to use it). Opens all the windows about an inch.

I did stupidly, open all the windows once, when parking at my sister's small holding. But of course forgot Tesla security, so once I walked far enough away, it closed all the windows, as well as locking the car up. Doh!

Grumpy_chap

So, I've been sitting in and playing with all the controls on my car over the past week and the amount of battery charge consumed for everything including whatever would be associated with just sitting there shows as around 6%.  I don't think that's outrageous.  It would be higher if I was doing things like sentry mode or cabin temperature control etc.

As a comparison, with the amount of "playing" I've done, I would have flattened the 12V battery on a regular ICE car.

JKenH

Grumpy_chap said:

So, I've been sitting in and playing with all the controls on my car over the past week and the amount of battery charge consumed for everything including whatever would be associated with just sitting there shows as around 6%.  I don't think that's outrageous.  It would be higher if I was doing things like sentry mode or cabin temperature control etc.

As a comparison, with the amount of "playing" I've done, I would have flattened the 12V battery on a regular ICE car.

Most modern ICE cars start flashing warnings when playing with the infotainment with the engine not running. Heaven knows what would happen if you started watching Netflix. 

Martyn1981

Grumpy_chap said:

So, I've been sitting in and playing with all the controls on my car over the past week and the amount of battery charge consumed for everything including whatever would be associated with just sitting there shows as around 6%.  I don't think that's outrageous.  It would be higher if I was doing things like sentry mode or cabin temperature control etc.

As a comparison, with the amount of "playing" I've done, I would have flattened the 12V battery on a regular ICE car.

That's good news, and fits with what Nick has tested, and I've suspected, that it's no biggie.

Speaking of Nick, I was pleasantly surprised at the 6% charging loss, I'd have assumed more.

Magnitio

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/rivian-vampire-drain-is-so-bad-the-total-wasted-energy-surpasses-100000-kwh-per-day-216062.html

JKenH

Article from Fleet News about charging losses 

Fleets ‘losing’ electricity when charging electric vehicles

Paul Hollick, AFP chair, explained that the difference in power use was being seen by those fleets which had been early adopters of the technology and were now looking at optimisation.

“They have been comparing their telemetry data with the charge point data to support some of the reimbursement programmes they’ve got in place, and they are seeing, on average, a 5-7% cable loss,”

However, he told June’s Fleet News at 10: “In some instances, it is as extreme as nearly 14 or 15%.”

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest-fleet-news/electric-fleet-news/2023/07/25/fleets-losing-electricity-when-charging-electric-vehicles-video