EV Charging losses and Vampire drain.

JKenH

This post was prompted by a discussion on the EV discussion thread. I thought any continuation of the discussion might be best on here. 

Interesting video comparing battery drain in a TMY with sentry mode on and off. You can cut to the statistics at 07.33.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE88SfmQnRU

Without sentry mode in and the car completely shut down vampire drain is 0.29kWh over 24 hours. How much it takes with sentry mode on will vary according to outside weather conditions as sentry mode apparently also triggers battery temperature management. 

JKenH

I came across the video in the post above in this thread (linked below) from Tesla Motors Club. I have quoted part of the opening post on the thread which highlights the difference between the driving consumption of the car and the actual energy consumption from the grid. It would be interesting if UK Tesla owners on this board were able to provide their own comparative statistics over lifetime ownership. 

Model Y actual energy consumption

I bought a new Model Y and have been driving it for a few weeks. According to the car, I've consumed about 185 Wh/km over the entire time. However, if I go with the Tesla App's charging stats, it actually works out to 279 Wh/km. If I consider energy as charged rather than as delivered, it's 317 Wh.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-y-actual-energy-consumption.284399/

1961Nick

JKenH said:

I came across the video in the post above in this thread (linked below) from Tesla Motors Club. I have quoted part of the opening post on the thread which highlights the difference between the driving consumption of the car and the actual energy consumption from the grid. It would be interesting if UK Tesla owners on this board were able to provide their own comparative statistics over lifetime ownership. 

Model Y actual energy consumption

I bought a new Model Y and have been driving it for a few weeks. According to the car, I've consumed about 185 Wh/km over the entire time. However, if I go with the Tesla App's charging stats, it actually works out to 279 Wh/km. If I consider energy as charged rather than as delivered, it's 317 Wh.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-y-actual-energy-consumption.284399/

My old Rolec charger had a meter module inside the box which indicated that the charging loss was just under 10% over time. Vampire drain was negligible as I didn't use sentry mode, dog mode, pre-conditioning or overheat protection - all of which eat power.

As long as you're only paying 7.5p/kWh for off peak power, the charging losses & vampire drain don't really add up to very much.

Grumpy_chap

1961Nick said:

Vampire drain was negligible as I didn't use sentry mode, dog mode, pre-conditioning or overheat protection - all of which eat power.

Aaah - what is "Vampire Drain"?

I have thought of "Vampire Drain" as energy used that is not achieving a positively desired benefit.  So, the energy that depletes the battery (or consumes additional plugged in electricity) but we really don't know where it went.  The equivalent of the dash cam in my old ICE being left plugged in and recording, so a flat 12V battery in the morning.

Sentry mode is a very specific, and optional, feature.  It seems, to me, more like a gimmic(*) than particularly worthwhile.  If parking the car in a location that is so rough that I need sentry mode, then I'd probably be better choosing to park somewhere else.

Cabin overheat protection probably only rarely comes into operation in UK.

Cabin pre-conditioning is a benefit in extra comfort and increases range (by using grid electricity directly rather than battery electricity).  Thee extra total energy is just that associated with the car being warmer for a bit longer. 

I see "Vampire Drain" as that energy consumed by the car just being idle, so alarm system etc.  That is very low.

Do others have a different definition of "Vampire Drain"?

(*) - I will be seeing my brother this weekend so do plan to activate Sentry mode so that I can provide suitably humourous comment on his actions when he goes to look at the car...  Plus it is good to check that features work even if they may not be used regularly.

Martyn1981

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

I came across the video in the post above in this thread (linked below) from Tesla Motors Club. I have quoted part of the opening post on the thread which highlights the difference between the driving consumption of the car and the actual energy consumption from the grid. It would be interesting if UK Tesla owners on this board were able to provide their own comparative statistics over lifetime ownership. 

Model Y actual energy consumption

I bought a new Model Y and have been driving it for a few weeks. According to the car, I've consumed about 185 Wh/km over the entire time. However, if I go with the Tesla App's charging stats, it actually works out to 279 Wh/km. If I consider energy as charged rather than as delivered, it's 317 Wh.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-y-actual-energy-consumption.284399/

My old Rolec charger had a meter module inside the box which indicated that the charging loss was just under 10% over time. Vampire drain was negligible as I didn't use sentry mode, dog mode, pre-conditioning or overheat protection - all of which eat power.

As long as you're only paying 7.5p/kWh for off peak power, the charging losses & vampire drain don't really add up to very much.

I'm not sure if using evidence and facts to debunk such myths is a good idea. If we aren't willing to pretend today, that they are a really big issue, then tomorrow, how are we going to be able to blame them all on immigration?

Martyn1981

Grumpy_chap said:

1961Nick said:

Vampire drain was negligible as I didn't use sentry mode, dog mode, pre-conditioning or overheat protection - all of which eat power.

Aaah - what is "Vampire Drain"?

I have thought of "Vampire Drain" as energy used that is not achieving a positively desired benefit.  So, the energy that depletes the battery (or consumes additional plugged in electricity) but we really don't know where it went.  The equivalent of the dash cam in my old ICE being left plugged in and recording, so a flat 12V battery in the morning.

Sentry mode is a very specific, and optional, feature.  It seems, to me, more like a gimmic(*) than particularly worthwhile.  If parking the car in a location that is so rough that I need sentry mode, then I'd probably be better choosing to park somewhere else.

Cabin overheat protection probably only rarely comes into operation in UK.

Cabin pre-conditioning is a benefit in extra comfort and increases range (by using grid electricity directly rather than battery electricity).  Thee extra total energy is just that associated with the car being warmer for a bit longer. 

I see "Vampire Drain" as that energy consumed by the car just being idle, so alarm system etc.  That is very low.

Do others have a different definition of "Vampire Drain"?

(*) - I will be seeing my brother this weekend so do plan to activate Sentry mode so that I can provide suitably humourous comment on his actions when he goes to look at the car...  Plus it is good to check that features work even if they may not be used regularly.

My thoughts too on vampire drain.

But don't dismiss sentry mode too quickly. It's not about rough areas, just things going wrong. For instance Wifey dropped a friend off for a run she'd entered. On returning to the carpark she saw that the car had been 'rubbed' on the front drivers side. Whilst we have sentry mode switched off at home, it's on elsewhere, and she was able to see the car that hit poor TiMmY, and also get the numberplate.

But just to restore faith in humankind, whilst she was driving around the local area, just in case she could spot the car, it chased her down, with an apologetic man who'd popped home to get a pen, paper and plastic bag (it was raining). He offered to pay for the repairs, but he was so nice, we went halves, as I felt quilty for a smaller rub on the other side, that was my fault when I hit our porch whilst trying to avoid some building materials in our front.

Not sentry mode, but using the same kit (the suite of cameras), a few days later Wifey saw a small accident, where a car moving to one side, to let traffic through a narrow space, then misjudged his exit (from the space) and rubbed a parked car. He spotted Wifey, spotting him, so pulled over. Later Wifey asked on the local area Facebook page if anyone had received some damage, and a woman responded that her boyfriends car (matching the vid) had been hit. No details were left.

Wifey was able to send them the vid of the accident, and from the rear camera, the vid of the person acknowledging the hit, and pulling over ..... or at least pretending too.

So sentry mode, and the cameras, are really useful, even if most of the time it's not ..... a bit like insurance.

Grumpy_chap

Martyn1981 said:

But don't dismiss sentry mode too quickly. It's not about rough areas, just things going wrong. For instance Wifey dropped a friend off for a run she'd entered. On returning to the carpark she saw that the car had been 'rubbed' on the front drivers side. Whilst we have sentry mode switched off at home, it's on elsewhere, and she was able to see the car that hit poor TiMmY, and also get the numberplate.

I can see that, except think we'd need it on at home also.

My wife's car was parked on our drive a couple of weeks back when a delivery van for an online retailer did a drop off and then used our drive to do a three-point turn (using the space next to my wife's car where my car would typically be parked).  The van driver reversed into the drive, missed the rear bumper but caught the rear wing and then continue to scrape down the side rear door and front door.  Obviously never stopped and no details.

Bit like horse stables, we are now getting CCTV installed.

1961Nick

Martyn1981 said:

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

I came across the video in the post above in this thread (linked below) from Tesla Motors Club. I have quoted part of the opening post on the thread which highlights the difference between the driving consumption of the car and the actual energy consumption from the grid. It would be interesting if UK Tesla owners on this board were able to provide their own comparative statistics over lifetime ownership. 

Model Y actual energy consumption

I bought a new Model Y and have been driving it for a few weeks. According to the car, I've consumed about 185 Wh/km over the entire time. However, if I go with the Tesla App's charging stats, it actually works out to 279 Wh/km. If I consider energy as charged rather than as delivered, it's 317 Wh.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-y-actual-energy-consumption.284399/

My old Rolec charger had a meter module inside the box which indicated that the charging loss was just under 10% over time. Vampire drain was negligible as I didn't use sentry mode, dog mode, pre-conditioning or overheat protection - all of which eat power.

As long as you're only paying 7.5p/kWh for off peak power, the charging losses & vampire drain don't really add up to very much.

I'm not sure if using evidence and facts to debunk such myths is a good idea. If we aren't willing to pretend today, that they are a really big issue, then tomorrow, how are we going to be able to blame them all on immigration?

In future I will blame Boris & Brexit for my vampire drain.

1961Nick

Sine I retired the car spends plenty of time in car parks so I use sentry mode more than I ever did before. Used selectively like that, the battery drain isn't very much & nothing like the drain those that use it 24/7 are seeing.

Accessing the cameras before opening the boot so a delivery driver can deposit a parcel in it is another benefit.

JKenH

Martyn1981 said:

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

I came across the video in the post above in this thread (linked below) from Tesla Motors Club. I have quoted part of the opening post on the thread which highlights the difference between the driving consumption of the car and the actual energy consumption from the grid. It would be interesting if UK Tesla owners on this board were able to provide their own comparative statistics over lifetime ownership. 

Model Y actual energy consumption

I bought a new Model Y and have been driving it for a few weeks. According to the car, I've consumed about 185 Wh/km over the entire time. However, if I go with the Tesla App's charging stats, it actually works out to 279 Wh/km. If I consider energy as charged rather than as delivered, it's 317 Wh.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-y-actual-energy-consumption.284399/

My old Rolec charger had a meter module inside the box which indicated that the charging loss was just under 10% over time. Vampire drain was negligible as I didn't use sentry mode, dog mode, pre-conditioning or overheat protection - all of which eat power.

As long as you're only paying 7.5p/kWh for off peak power, the charging losses & vampire drain don't really add up to very much.

I'm not sure if using evidence and facts to debunk such myths is a good idea. If we aren't willing to pretend today, that they are a really big issue, then tomorrow, how are we going to be able to blame them all on immigration?

I’m not sure what you are hoping to achieve by pretending vampire drain or charging losses are myths or conflating them with immigration. It seems almost as you are trying to bring tribal politics into a valid discussion on the realities of running an EV. Nobody has said they are really big issues but most people owning Teslas acknowledge they exist and those that don’t are in danger of losing credibility. 

Nick has attempted to quantify the charging losses he has experienced just as he has (in other threads) the roundtrip losses that occur with domestic solar batteries. Depending on the situation of how and where you charge your EV the losses will vary as will the impact on your wallet. 

In case you missed it here was my post about the highly respected YouTuber, Bjorn Nyland’s investigation of charging losses with a Tesla. 

Charging loss on Tesla Model 3 on AC and DC

Here is a YouTube video from Bjorn Nyland which contains the following table. Please see the video for explanation of the difference between the two 50kW results.

The result with the 2.3kW charger is better on the Tesla than I recall on my Leaf. Either the Tesla is more efficient at AC/DC conversion or I need to check my LeafSpy results again.

https://youtu.be/iLmIIe9N_aI

It would be good if we could have discussions on factual matters such as this without attempts being made to belittle contributors submissions by inferring in some way that they are acting out of prejudice or for political reasons.