Problem accessing HMRC to pay tax

poppystar

Apologies all if this should be elsewhere on the forum but I could not see a better place and know some of you will have accessed HMRC.

I need to declare and pay CGT on the property I inherited which sold for more than the probate value.

To use HMRC online services I need to verify my identity with Government Gateway. This is where the problems started as this requires two form of I’d proof and I am only offered two - passport and NI driving licence. As I’m in England I could only use the former so am excluded from the service.

So far I have spent over five hours on the phone, being transferred from place to place. Evidently it’s not a technical problem or a non technical one. The latest is I don’t meet the criteria so there is nothing to be done [With a 30 day deadline on declaring and paying there is not even enough time to move to Northern Ireland and pass a driving test!!!] There is also apparently no paper version of the form to complete. So....?.??

I am a uk citizen, I pay tax, and yet I can’t use Government Gateway or get any answers or resolution. I can’t even raise a formal complaint online as I don’t have GG! 

Does anyone know if it is possible to find a paper version anywhere and I’m just being told wrongly? Has anyone had a similar problem? Or any ideas on what to do given the deadline. I have asked everyone I have spoken to to note the problem so it doesn’t come back to bite me but evidently I need a CGT account for that to be noted on....back to the circle!! 

Keep_pedalling

If it was asking for a NI licence it sounds you are accessing the wrong site.

poppystar

Keep_pedalling said:

If it was asking for a NI licence it sounds you are accessing the wrong site.

No definitely the correct site. (It’s driving me mad, but not that mad yet!)  There is a list of about six things you can use, NI licence just one among them (DVLA licences are specifically excluded with reason given). I gathered all these together and but after entering my details and when on the ID proof question all the options except the NI licence and passport are missing. The reason given by the online services help is that HMRC won’t give the option of things like payslip info or p60 info if they don’t have that information to check it against. Hence the helpline are saying it isn’t technical and the restricted list is because the info to check against is not available and the tax helplines are saying it is technical as the list I’m presented with should have the wider options because that info does exist. 

JGB1955

Could you use Gov.uk Verify instead?  GOV.UK Verify - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)  I use the Post Office version to login to HMRC.

poppystar

JGB1955 said:

Could you use Gov.uk Verify instead?  GOV.UK Verify - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)  I use the Post Office version to login to HMRC.

Thanks, I looked at that route, but it is a limited service and doesn’t allow access to Capital Gains Tax area...grrh! 

xylophone

Under the circumstances, I would write (keep a copy and send signed for) so that nobody can say that you have not at least reported the gain within the required 30 days.

I would also write to your MP and ask him to raise the matter with the appropriate authority,

Capital Gains Tax Queries
HM Revenue and Customs
BX9 1AS
United Kingdom
setting out the difficulties you have faced

and including the following information.

• property address and postcode
• date you got the property
• date you exchanged contracts when you were selling or disposing of the property
• date you stopped being the property’s owner (completion date)
• value of the property when you got it
• value of the property when you sold or disposed of it
• costs of buying, selling or making improvements to the property
• details of any tax reliefs, allowances or exemptions you’re entitled to claim
• property type, if you’re a non-resident

poppystar

xylophone said:

Under the circumstances, I would write (keep a copy and send signed for) so that nobody can say that you have not at least reported the gain within the required 30 days.

I would also write to your MP and ask him to raise the matter with the appropriate authority,

Capital Gains Tax Queries
HM Revenue and Customs
BX9 1AS
United Kingdom
setting out the difficulties you have faced

and including the following information.

• property address and postcode
• date you got the property
• date you exchanged contracts when you were selling or disposing of the property
• date you stopped being the property’s owner (completion date)
• value of the property when you got it
• value of the property when you sold or disposed of it
• costs of buying, selling or making improvements to the property
• details of any tax reliefs, allowances or exemptions you’re entitled to claim
• property type, if you’re a non-resident

Thanks, good suggestion. I was able to do the calculation online as it’s before the need to set up an account so actually I have all the above information, except the property address and acquisition date, in a confirmation printout which details the amount to pay too. Of course I could send that to them with a covering letter - I think it’s addled my brain being on hold listening to recorded messages for the best part of two days and I was stuck on the track of needing a form either online or paper. So glad I posted on here! 

poppystar

UPDATE

Many hours and much angst later I got to speak to people who knew the answer. I’m updating here in case it is useful information for anyone else in the future.

1. I could not confirm my ID with Government Gateway because I have not paid National  Insurance in recent years (retired) so the system has no access to P60 or payslips despite the fact that I have paid tax every month. 
2. This means that I am classified as digitally excluded. Evidently had I used that phrase I would have been put through to someone who could help sooner (someone who, from my experience today, speaks very slowly and clearly as if being digitally excluded bordered on senile)
3. Paper copies of a form are available for this small group of digitally excluded people. This is not mentioned on the gov.uk site to prevent ‘normal’ people using it. (Great help that as how do you then know it exists, when they tell you it doesn’t, if there is no mention!?)
4. So I await my form which is designed to be easy for digitally excluded people to use (based on an assumption that we are not computer literate rather than just not NI payers) 
They are evidently only working on January forms now so at least I get to keep the money a bit longer!

Needless to say my MP will get feedback on a process that digitally excludes people for being retired then keeps the service for them hidden from view...not to mention the previous 10 or so HMRC employees who clearly hadn’t heard of it! Stressful five days over, wine to be opened.

RAS

Please do feed back further on your experience; this may be very helpful to others.

Not least as I want to need to confirm my ID through the Government Gateway, although I've not worked for several years, in order to sort out my state pension!

thegreenone

Yes, please do further updates as I am fairly certain I'm going to be in this situation soon.  

poppystar

RAS said:

Please do feed back further on your experience; this may be very helpful to others.

Not least as I want to need to confirm my ID through the Government Gateway, although I've not worked for several years, in order to sort out my state pension!

thegreenone said:

Yes, please do further updates as I am fairly certain I'm going to be in this situation soon.  

I have been on a very steep learning curve in the past week but, as I now understand it, the Gov.uk Verify service can be used for some access purposes - like state pension and some DVLA actions - so is an alternative. It can not be used for Capital Gains Tax purposes, which was what I needed. Why there are two systems I really can’t fathom but someone more knowledgeable than me may come along to clear that up!

I assume I would have hit this problem earlier if I’d tried to do IHT400 online but I chose the paper route for that anyway. 

The main issues I will be raising are:
 - why the use of P60 and payslip information to confirm ID is only possible if you have paid National Insurance contributions in a qualifying year - surely these are tax documents too so should be accessible to HMRC?
- why none of the first ten helpline people I spoke to had any knowledge of this digital exclusion and so passed me from one to another? (Or knew but had been told to not mention the paper alternative) 
- why there is no mention of this on gov.uk (was told that is intentional) so it is impossible to find what the problem is or what to do about it for oneself?
- what is the rationale for some services needing Gateway and some Verify? 


I may think of other things by the time I write the letter.

This is not just a retired person issue, talking to friends who are also carers and temporarily out of the working world they could well end up in the same situation.