When is a "Final Bill" not a "Final Bill"?

phillw

Reed_Richards said:
To MY mind the legal issue is whether an estate creditor, having presented a bill and been paid, then has the legal right to demand to be paid more.  If so, for how long does this right extend?     

I'm not aware of a specific cut off date, you, the ombudsman and then potentially the courts will have to make a decision whether the bill gets paid.
One would hope the energy company figures it's cheaper to write off the money 

matelodave

The collective wisdom or opinions on this forum may help the OP decide what to do but in the end if he or she wants a definitive answer then they need to consult either a solicitor or the Energy Ombudsman.

Consulting a solicitor is likely to cost money (possibly more than the amount requested) and if the EO adjudicates in favour of the energy company then the OP will still have to pay up. If the bill was based on several years worth of estimates then it would not be easy to just chuck out a final bill without going back over the period to ensure that the correct amounts were calculated.
One would have hoped that during the period that that the parent was in care that someone would have put some effort into keeping the house in order and ensuring that meters were being read and bills were being paid.

It may be unfair or considered to be unjust but It all comes down to the amount of aggro that the OP wants to endure and the fact that as executor they are still responsible.

[Deleted User]

Reed_Richards said:

[Deleted User] said:
Your PERSONAL opinion is irrelevant, as is mine..... 

I am in complete agreement there and that extends to our PERSONAL interpretations of the law surrounding this issue.  This is a legal matter and has nothing really to do with the fact that the creditor in this instance is an energy company.  To MY mind the legal issue is whether an estate creditor, having presented a bill and been paid, then has the legal right to demand to be paid more.  If so, for how long does this right extend?     

See the legal advice cited above which suggests that in certain circumstances a creditor has up to 12 years to make a claim against a personal representative. That said, in my very limited experience of having to seek legal advice, a solicitor/barrister will make their judgement as to whether a matter can successfully be pursued through a Court based on prevailing case law/past judgements (precedent). I have recently seen a copy of a £2000 legal letter repudiating the claims of an aggrieved family member who was contesting his late Mother’s Will. The letter was a Master-Class in how to see off a raft of unsubstantiated claims - without any emotion- just by quoting recent Court judgements on similar accusations. At this point, the ‘No Win - No Fee’ lawyers refused to take the claim any further.

Putting to one side the particular circumstances of this thread, all companies make billing mistakes, and they have the right to revise a bill. Under normal circumstances, provided that the revised bill is issued within 6 years, I believe that it will never become ‘statute barred’. Statute barred does not in itself, as I understand it, write off the debt, it just prevents enforceable payment action through the Courts. The bottomline is that both a supplier and a consumer have the right to attempt to deal with an issue like this via a Court at anytime.

My problem with your post was the use of the word CAN, which implies that you have knowledge of the case law which would give the OP the right to reject the revised bill. I am sure that he would be interested to see it.

Reed_Richards

I would be very surprised if the Energy Ombudsman would be willing to pass a judgement that takes everything into consideration.  Either the Ombudsman would have to decide that in no circumstances (or only for a limited time) could a "Final Bill" not be final or it would have to pass judgement in favour of the energy company; I don't see how it could take the special circumstances of this particular case into account.

If I were the OP I would certainly not knuckle under straight away but would begin by telling the energy company that there is no money left to pay their revised bill and see how they react.  Assuming they wished to continue to pursue the matter I would exhaust all options for getting free legal help before knuckling under and paying the bill out of my own pocket (which is what the OP would have to do).    

inspectorperez

I have been reading this thread with great interest as I am a named executor on a number of family/friends' wills. I'm certainly not a solicitor but have always maintained an interest in legal matters relevant to my own professional career.

"The administration of most estates generally takes less than a year ­ however the Limitation Act 1980 does stipulate that certain claims can be made against the executor for up to 12 years after the death of the estate owner. In most cases, problems with the estate tend to arise during the early stages of probate, our policy cover lasts for an 18 month period but we can extend your Executors Insurance for a futher 12 months if you wish to continue your cover beyond the first 18 months. A 12 month extension is provided at a discount of 50% on the original base premium."

The OP may find this extract of some interest and relevance taken from an insurance company website.

In my own career I was aware of a number of cases where clients were sued for claims arising many years prior to an "event". Asbestos claims were a good example where the "event" took place many years before a client company may have ceased trading/been struck off the company register or dissolved in some other way.

This would suggest to me on the face of it that the concept of liability continuing for some considerable time is not necessarily in any way constrained by the Statute of Limitations. As I say, I'm not a lawyer!

Reed_Richards

inspectorperez said:

... This would suggest to me on the face of it that the concept of liability continuing for some considerable time is not necessarily in any way constrained by the Statute of Limitations. As I say, I'm not a lawyer!

Probably because the UK does not have s Stature of Limitations, except for minor ("summary") offences for which it is six months.

This page here gives certain time limits for legal action https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/1-518-8770?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true and indicates that the "up to 12 years" applies only to claims for breach of obligation brought in respect of deeds.  Be wary of what people trying to sell you insurance will tell you.  

brewerdave

phillw said:

Reed_Richards said:
To MY mind the legal issue is whether an estate creditor, having presented a bill and been paid, then has the legal right to demand to be paid more.  If so, for how long does this right extend?     

I'm not aware of a specific cut off date, you, the ombudsman and then potentially the courts will have to make a decision whether the bill gets paid.
One would hope the energy company figures it's cheaper to write off the money 

I have personal experience of a similar issue involving a water meter. After the death of my mother we didn't know which water meter was hers in a block of ~ 12, so we asked the water Co. to read and send me the bill as executor.
Got a bill after ~ 6 weeks with an actual final reading, and paid it after probate had been granted. About 12 months afterwards ,long after the estate had been finalised , they sent me  a revised bill for ~ £28 extra. 
 I phoned up the Bereavement team (fortunately I still had the number!) explained the issue and they arranged for the bill to be written off, sending me a confirmation via email. 

phillw

brewerdave said:
About 12 months afterwards ,long after the estate had been finalised , they sent me  a revised bill for ~ £28 extra. 

 I phoned up the Bereavement team (fortunately I still had the number!) explained the issue and they arranged for the bill to be written off, sending me a confirmation via email. 

Right, if executors had to wait until the end of time before finalizing an estate in case a utility company wakes up one morning and realizes that they miscalculated a bill, then nobody would ever finalize an estate. As everyone has to have their estate finalized , including the people who run utility companies & their parents, then they should be mindful of this.

Saying that, it is possible to finalize an estate too quickly & being an executor for free when you aren't the sole beneficiary is a whole lot of work and risk for probably not much gain.