CRA 2015 s62 10 Defence - No real opportunity of becoming acquainted with T&Cs

FizzyCharlie

Coupon-mad said:

Which PPC?

The template hammers the CRA 2015 point already.  That point was covered ''like clubbing a seal'' a Judge said to me last year when I used the same arguments that are in the template.

The full name and address is I PARK SERVICES LTD, WOODWATER HOUSE, PYNES HILL, EXETER, DEVON, EX2 5WR and it is DCB Legal who are chasing.... Re. the template, I imagine some of the Judge's wince when they see that coming..!

FizzyCharlie

Redx said:

condense 2 like coupon mad mentioned

3 reads like a WS , pare it right down to bare essentials , no me , myself & I , the defendant and we is ok , keep it concise , open the door to the WS waffle in several months time , where I can be used instead of the Defendant

So open doors in 3 , jackanory time is the WS

Perfect, thanks - #2 is condensed, I'll cut #3 down, did seem quite long at the time. Took me 30sec to work out WS but I got there!

Redx

FizzyCharlie said:

Redx said:

condense 2 like coupon mad mentioned

3 reads like a WS , pare it right down to bare essentials , no me , myself & I , the defendant and we is ok , keep it concise , open the door to the WS waffle in several months time , where I can be used instead of the Defendant

So open doors in 3 , jackanory time is the WS

Perfect, thanks - #2 is condensed, I'll cut #3 down, did seem quite long at the time. Took me 30sec to work out WS but I got there!

Read the fifth post in the newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum , all the acronyms are in there

henrik777

Essentially the condition I supposedly breached was that 'Payment needs to be made within 10 minutes of entering the car park' How is it possible to be bound to this condition if you are not aware of it prior to entering the car park!?

If the time starts on entry, and it's practically impossible to be aware of it until you enter, park then go and read signs, blissfully unaware the clock is already running, then it defies belief anyone can find it fair. If it's unfair then the case appears to collapse.

FizzyCharlie

henrik777 said:

Essentially the condition I supposedly breached was that 'Payment needs to be made within 10 minutes of entering the car park' How is it possible to be bound to this condition if you are not aware of it prior to entering the car park!?

If the time starts on entry, and it's practically impossible to be aware of it until you enter, park then go and read signs, blissfully unaware the clock is already running, then it defies belief anyone can find it fair. If it's unfair then the case appears to collapse.

My thoughts exactly - If it was such an important condition then surely it should be on the same sign advertising the Parking Tariffs which you can read from 100m away...! My only concern is, and this may be an unfair misconception, that the courts might go by some 'letter of the law' process and not on fairness and common sense. I've not had any personal experience with the courts so this may be an unfair assumption...

henrik777

FizzyCharlie said:

henrik777 said:

Essentially the condition I supposedly breached was that 'Payment needs to be made within 10 minutes of entering the car park' How is it possible to be bound to this condition if you are not aware of it prior to entering the car park!?

If the time starts on entry, and it's practically impossible to be aware of it until you enter, park then go and read signs, blissfully unaware the clock is already running, then it defies belief anyone can find it fair. If it's unfair then the case appears to collapse.

My thoughts exactly - If it was such an important condition then surely it should be on the same sign advertising the Parking Tariffs which you can read from 100m away...! My only concern is, and this may be an unfair misconception, that the courts might go by some 'letter of the law' process and not on fairness and common sense. I've not had any personal experience with the courts so this may be an unfair assumption...

It would need to be communicated on the entrance sign and visible before you parked to be fair.

If the 10 minute clock starts before you could possible know it wouldn't be fair if it was the biggest writing on the board as the time was already under way.

Coupon-mad

The duty on any court handling almost any consumer contract claim, to undertake a test of fairness (of both terms, and consumer notices- signage) is the letter of the law:

https://www.geldards.com/the-consumer-rights-act-2015---unfair-terms.aspx

henrik777

Coupon-mad said:

The duty on any court handling almost any consumer contract claim, to undertake a test of fairness (of both terms, and consumer notices- signage) is the letter of the law:

https://www.geldards.com/the-consumer-rights-act-2015---unfair-terms.aspx

They're duty bound to have an open mind too ....

FizzyCharlie

Redx said:

condense 2 like coupon mad mentioned

3 reads like a WS , pare it right down to bare essentials , no me , myself & I , the defendant and we is ok , keep it concise , open the door to the WS waffle in several months time , where I can be used instead of the Defendant

So open doors in 3 , jackanory time is the WS

Thanks again for all of your help so far. I've had a go at reducing #3 and it is much shorter - If you could let me know if it isn't too brief and contains just enough detail then I will get it sent off and wait to fill out the WS in a lot more detail!
On 24/11/2019 the defendant parked at Southgate Wakefield, Wakefield, WF1 ITF. The defendant attempted to make payment but the Pay and Display machine would not accept credit cards. The defendant attempted to make payment using the online method but was unable to load the website correctly. The defendant decided the most expedient method to ensure payment was to walk into the town centre to find a WiFi hotspot and/or improved mobile internet. Having walked directly into town the defendant was able to find an appropriate internet connection and complete payment for a period of 2 hours to cover the parking period. Confirmation of payment was received. The defendant returned to the car and exited the car park within the period paid for.

D_P_Dance

The https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164/parking-eye-signs-oxford-road-reading/p1T&C are often several hundred words long, jn very small priny, and high off the ground, read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164/parking-eye-signs-oxford-road-reading/p1

Have you complained to your MP?