Electric car information

Cotswoldtony

Hi All, here is some electric car information that dealers do not tell you or just don't know.
First you can not fit towing components to the average size EV only the large SUV's/Telsa cars can tow and even then it's nothing like the same weight as an ICE and will shorten battery mileage range by approximately a third.
Batteries next...lithium battery life span is best when charged to 70% and discharged to 30%, higher, lower and fast charging shortens battery life span with battery cells balancing being the main problem hence less mileage each year. 
Repeated fast/high charging can damage the batteries and require expensive replacement.
Tyres fitted are narrow and tall for less resistance but need to be stronger for power delivered by the electric motor/s so more expensive to replace.
EV's can not be towed if battery is flat or breakdown they must be transported with all the wheels off the ground.
The weight of an EV is approximately a third more than an ICE so with narrow tyres will not be as good on ice/mud/gravel driveway.
Reduce the mileage range stated by the vehicle manufacturer by a third for a more accurate range and reserve 20% of battery to find charging points in unfamiliar locations.
You will need a credit/debit card or smart phone/app/account to pay for electric and charging points will have different ways/methods/conditions/charges to use their charging point if/when available. 

Lomast

Is there a question somewhere or should this be in praise vent and warnings? Also that information is both fairly obvious and easily available.

forgotmyname

How many wrong assumptions can you fit into one post?

Narrow tyres cut through deep snow rather that floating over it.
70% / 30% wrong but close. Your forget that manufacturers have already factored that in, when it says 100% its not
really at 100%. You could get more charge into the battery.

You can tow some electric cars but you need to pull the main breaker so the motors do not attempt to charge the
batteries. That is the major problem. Motors may heat up  if they require a cooling system. Short low speed tows
with the breakers removed then most electric cars can be towed.

Cotswoldtony

Forgotmyname
Read my listing again I never said snow I said ice/mud/gravel.
I notice you trashed my listing stating I am making wrong assumptions.
If you tow an EV you will void your warranty read the manuals, most EV's should not be towed above 10 m.p.h that's why all the wheels must be off the ground. (Google it)
Imagine the AA/RAC/Green Flag towing all the EV's home or to a garage at 10 m.p.h.
Towing above 10 m.p.h even with the breakers removed can cause damage.
Lithium battery banks operate via a BMS (battery management system) a thermal coupling and a thermal cooling system.
Car battery banks require high SOC (state of charge) and low DOD (deepth of discharge) to give the vehicle it's mileage range, so battery bank manufacturers don't reduce the bank to 70%/30% they set the thermal charging system to temperature settings.
Forgotmyname clearly does not understand how a BMS (battery management system) operates via a thermal coupling and thermal cooling system.
The aim of my listing is to inform motorists about EV details before purchase that a dealer probably will not. 

forgotmyname

Your mistaken again.
Mud is similar to snow, if you cut through it then you can hit a firmer base rather that a wide tyre floating on the surface.
Some EV's can be towed without damage, its similar to lifting off the throttle and coasting/regenerative braking on some vehicles.

Not all cars use a cooling solution for the batteries, but they often under rate the batteries so that they appear to be at 100%
for longer even though they may have degraded.  Assumption leading to mis-information?

Grumpy_chap

Cotswoldtony said:

If you tow an EV you will void your warranty read the manuals, most EV's should not be towed above 10 m.p.h that's why all the wheels must be off the ground. (Google it)
Imagine the AA/RAC/Green Flag towing all the EV's home or to a garage at 10 m.p.h.
Towing above 10 m.p.h even with the breakers removed can cause damage.

I don't know either way, so I will take your statement that an EV cannot be towed as correct - it is certainly plausible.

It is just I really cannot remember the last time I saw a breakdown service actually towing any car - they always seem to use flatbed transporters, so the disabled car would only need to be "towed" by the winch up the ramp at the very slow speed that the winch operates.  I would particularly expect that the breakdown service and EV owners would know the requirement in the event of recovery being required.

It is also my understanding that there are fewer reasons an EV would / could fail catastrophically and leave you at the road side requiring recovery than an ICE.

Given these factors, the concern about needing to tow an EV seems likely to be of only niche concern to EV owners.

Cotswoldtony

Forgotmenot
Good luck in mud with your EV being a third heavier, lighter vehicles do better in bad conditions ask any 4x4 owner so stop trying to supply misinformation and trashing my listing.
My friend do you understand under rating batteries I think not!
All deep cycle battery charging systems set their charging systems to the battery manufacturer recommended charging data.
Lower settings you mention are for protection in the form of voltage per cell so battery banks must be set to battery manufacturer data not the vehicle manufacturer.
Ev's with no thermal cooling system to lower battery temperature will shorten battery life span and will only be fitted to short range EV's. 
LVD's are fitted to stop battery drainage (low voltage discharge) that's what you are talking about, SOD needs to be high for EV mileage range and all lithium batteries operate at high voltage so temperature sensing and thermal cooling needed for good battery life span, even fast charging will be slowed down  by the BMS when battery temperture is high.
Good luck towing your EV above 10 m.p.h with what you claim is o k with your foot off the throttle.
I will leave this up to the viewers to decide who is supplying misinformation, 
I have spent enough time trying to explain things to you.

MX5huggy

I drive an EV, it’s great. The other day I broke down didn’t have any power kept cutting out as I was trying to get up a hill. Stopped tried again no luck 10 meters then cutout. Called the local rescue company out they diagnosed the fault but didn’t have the parts so I had to wait for the flat bed, a tow was not offered. Lift pump had failed on my 1996 Defender £30 and and an hour on the spanners had it fixed on the drive. The EV had not missed a watt. Clearly both need the flat bed, one can tow one can’t never have I tried towing with mid sized hatch back. 

9 times out of 10 I choose the EV over the Defender it’s quick, quiet, great fun in the corners, cheap on fuel (1.5p per mile vs 25p ish). Better for the planet and if I rolled it I’d probably survive. My next family car will be an EV it will have a towing capacity of 1000kg, it will be very difficult to justify keeping the Defender then. 

[Deleted User]

Cotswoldtony said:

Forgotmenot
Good luck in mud with your EV being a third heavier, lighter vehicles do better in bad conditions ask any 4x4 owner so stop trying to supply misinformation and trashing my listing.
My friend do you understand under rating batteries I think not!
All deep cycle battery charging systems set their charging systems to the battery manufacturer recommended charging data.
Lower settings you mention are for protection in the form of voltage per cell so battery banks must be set to battery manufacturer data not the vehicle manufacturer.
Ev's with no thermal cooling system to lower battery temperature will shorten battery life span and will only be fitted to short range EV's. 
LVD's are fitted to stop battery drainage (low voltage discharge) that's what you are talking about, SOD needs to be high for EV mileage range and all lithium batteries operate at high voltage so temperature sensing and thermal cooling needed for good battery life span, even fast charging will be slowed down  by the BMS when battery temperture is high.
Good luck towing your EV above 10 m.p.h with what you claim is o k with your foot off the throttle.
I will leave this up to the viewers to decide who is supplying misinformation, 
I have spent enough time trying to explain things to you.

Why not support your argument with links to credible sources, rather than telling people to google stuff?
Real world data on Tesla shows that even for a heavy user doing 400,000+ miles and cars 5+ years old, the actual drop in battery capacity is sub 10% meaning a 450 mile car still can do 400+ miles. 

BOWFER

Cotswoldtony said:

Hi All, here is some electric car information that dealers do not tell you or just don't know.
First you can not fit towing components to the average size EV only the large SUV's/Telsa cars can tow and even then it's nothing like the same weight as an ICE and will shorten battery mileage range by approximately a third.
Batteries next...lithium battery life span is best when charged to 70% and discharged to 30%, higher, lower and fast charging shortens battery life span with battery cells balancing being the main problem hence less mileage each year. 
Repeated fast/high charging can damage the batteries and require expensive replacement.
Tyres fitted are narrow and tall for less resistance but need to be stronger for power delivered by the electric motor/s so more expensive to replace.
EV's can not be towed if battery is flat or breakdown they must be transported with all the wheels off the ground.
The weight of an EV is approximately a third more than an ICE so with narrow tyres will not be as good on ice/mud/gravel driveway.
Reduce the mileage range stated by the vehicle manufacturer by a third for a more accurate range and reserve 20% of battery to find charging points in unfamiliar locations.
You will need a credit/debit card or smart phone/app/account to pay for electric and charging points will have different ways/methods/conditions/charges to use their charging point if/when available. 

Brief rundown
Towing, couldn't care less, no idea if this is correct or not.
Now, onto the rest of the rubbish.
1. There's zero evidence of this 30%-70% thing in EVs, most owners I came across in real life and on a massive EV forum charges as they pleased with no detrimental effects at all.
2. Repeated fast charging does not damage the batteries, there are multiple examples of very high mileage EVS being used as taxis and they are fast-charged all their life.
3. The only EV I can think of that doesn't use run-of-the-mill wheel and tyre size is the BMW i3. 
4. There are multiple videoes out there showing that quoted range is actually pretty damned close and, in some examples, better than the manufacturers quoted range - trying watching CARWOW video range tests for proof.
5. with regard to the credit card thing, what's the point? That chargers don't take cash? How many people pay for petrol by vash these days?
TBH I think the last point shows that the OP is old and very reluctant to change, hence his apparent anger at EVs and his desire to share some of his ill-informed pish with all and sundry in an unsolicited manner.

Grumpy_chap

Are the comments about range in an EV varying from the published data any different from the actual mpg on an ICE varying form published data?
Surely, in both cases, there is a test economy provided to allow comparison between different models.  Real economy will differ depending on use etc.