Work contract

Isaac2011

I recently applied for a job and was successful in my application back in November upon acceptance it was agreed my shift would be 8.00 till 4.30 (40 hours) to start in February. In January I was contacted requesting  start date to be pushed back to April which I agreed to I clarified again my shift which again was agreed by email. A few days later I was talking to a friend who worked there who advised they don’t do 8.00am starts its 8.30 I contacted who apologised and advised shift would be 8.30 till 5 Monday to Friday no weekends. When I received my contact the contact advised Monday to Sunday 40 hours to which I contacted again and recieved an email to advise that any set hours agreed at recruitment would be honoured and it was fine to sign the contract.. Niw I’ve started they are now saying as of the 1st of April any new starters no longer get breaks paid and shift would be 8.30 till 5.30. I was not notified of this. My contract is identical to my friend who already works there. 

Is this allowed?

Undervalued

Isaac2011 said:

I recently applied for a job and was successful in my application back in November upon acceptance it was agreed my shift would be 8.00 till 4.30 (40 hours) to start in February. In January I was contacted requesting  start date to be pushed back to April which I agreed to I clarified again my shift which again was agreed by email. A few days later I was talking to a friend who worked there who advised they don’t do 8.00am starts its 8.30 I contacted who apologised and advised shift would be 8.30 till 5 Monday to Friday no weekends. When I received my contact the contact advised Monday to Sunday 40 hours to which I contacted again and recieved an email to advise that any set hours agreed at recruitment would be honoured and it was fine to sign the contract.. Niw I’ve started they are now saying as of the 1st of April any new starters no longer get breaks paid and shift would be 8.30 till 5.30. I was not notified of this. My contract is identical to my friend who already works there. 

Is this allowed?

Basically yes I'm afraid.

With less than two years employment you have little security and if you don't agree to the revised terms they could terminate your employment just by giving whatever notice is specified in your current contract. If a notice period is not specified then the legal default of one week's notice during the first two years would apply (or zero notice if you have been there less than a month).

Kerrymakk

I work as a personal assistant carer No job description on my contract of what my duties should be ,which I know isn’t a necessity, but I’ve given some daily tasks to do which was not mentioned to me in my interview but my boss is saying she did but I know 100% she didn’t mention it . 

She says one thing to me then says she didn’t it’s her word against mine I feel she’s gaslighting me! But if there’s no job description on contract and I’m been given jobs to do that wasn’t mentioned to me in my interview and no evidence of what was said and  feel these task I’ve been  asked to do aren’t really my job to be doing, would this be classed as change of contract ? I’ve so many issues not just contract problems with my employer. 

Grumpy_chap

Kerrymakk said:

I work as a personal assistant carer No job description on my contract of what my duties should be ,which I know isn’t a necessity, but I’ve given some daily tasks to do which was not mentioned to me in my interview but my boss is saying she did but I know 100% she didn’t mention it . 

She says one thing to me then says she didn’t it’s her word against mine I feel she’s gaslighting me! But if there’s no job description on contract and I’m been given jobs to do that wasn’t mentioned to me in my interview and no evidence of what was said and  feel these task I’ve been  asked to do aren’t really my job to be doing, would this be classed as change of contract ? I’ve so many issues not just contract problems with my employer. 

What are you being asked to do that you do not feel is part of the job?

The absence of a job description is largely irrelevant in this as most job descriptions include a catch-all near the end along the lines of "and any other reasonable tasks".  If what you are doing falls within the widest remit of "personal assistant carer" then it is probably in the job description (even if you don't have one).

Jillanddy

I’ve so many issues not just contract problems with my employer

I'm fairly sure that you already know what the answer is. It doesn't honestly matter what you think is your job. You have been told what to do. If you don't think that you should, then get another job. Unless you can show that everything you are being asked is totally and utterly unreasonable and you have worked there for more than two years, then your opinion on what your job is is irrelevant. You can be dismissed in a second.

Kerrymakk

Kerrymakk said:

I work as a personal assistant carer No job description on my contract of what my duties should be ,which I know isn’t a necessity, but I’ve given some daily tasks to do which was not mentioned to me in my interview but my boss is saying she did but I know 100% she didn’t mention it . 

She says one thing to me then says she didn’t it’s her word against mine I feel she’s gaslighting me! But if there’s no job description on contract and I’m been given jobs to do that wasn’t mentioned to me in my interview and no evidence of what was said and  feel these task I’ve been  asked to do aren’t really my job to be doing, would this be classed as change of contract ? I’ve so many issues not just contract problems with my employer. 

Grumpy_chap said:

Kerrymakk said:

I work as a personal assistant carer No job description on my contract of what my duties should be ,which I know isn’t a necessity, but I’ve given some daily tasks to do which was not mentioned to me in my interview but my boss is saying she did but I know 100% she didn’t mention it . 

She says one thing to me then says she didn’t it’s her word against mine I feel she’s gaslighting me! But if there’s no job description on contract and I’m been given jobs to do that wasn’t mentioned to me in my interview and no evidence of what was said and  feel these task I’ve been  asked to do aren’t really my job to be doing, would this be classed as change of contract ? I’ve so many issues not just contract problems with my employer. 

What are you being asked to do that you do not feel is part of the job?

The absence of a job description is largely irrelevant in this as most job descriptions include a catch-all near the end along the lines of "and any other reasonable tasks".  If what you are doing falls within the widest remit of "personal assistant carer" then it is probably in the job description (even if you don't have one).

My shifts are breakfast , dinner ,tea and supper calls 1 hour each call to make the clients meals give medication general house cleaning duties but had a few issues with employer and now all of sudden I’ve to scrub garden flags , pick up dog poo scrub tiles etc all this daily as well as feed the client i feel like I’m not caring for the client i feel like I’m make his meal dumping him in front of tv while i Do these daily tasks I’ve not got time to interact with client ask he’s feeling general chit chat about his day , the client i care for has dementia I just honestly don’t think they are something I should be doing daily in a 1 hour visit i Know my job involves general house cleaning but scrubbing garden flags , dog poo !? 

Kerrymakk

@Jillanddy that’s what I’m saying at my interview she never said my job duties would be picking up dog poo and scrubbing garden flags i was told general house work since when does dog poo and scrubbing flags become general house work then when I said to employer about that wasn’t said in my interview or on my contract she said HA think you you’ll find there is no job description in contract and yes i did tell you scrub flags and pick up dog poo and I know she didn’t 100% , she’s saying one thing then when I ask about it no I didn’t say that I said blah blah , she’s  gaslighting me I know what she’s doing but I want advice how to prove all this , I’ve also not had wage slips for months I’ve asked for them ( not up to me ) and I get excuse after excuse with her like payroll is closed or I’ve gone mad and payroll but the my assured me will have them by the end of the day still no wage slips , I’ve worked extra hours Which at interview was told add at the bottom of time sheet any extra hours I do with why I’ve done those extra hours , just been paid £180 short and apparently I’ve to ask permission to do extra hours which she says yet again was mentioned in interview , I take client to appointments which run late , take client to see wife who’s in nursing home , he has had a fall It was me that found him on the floor his face all smashed in , stayed With him till family arrived (1am) my shift finished at 11 so what she saying am I ok to do this overtime he’s fallen if I’ve not got permission I’m clocking off doesn’t work like that does it I’ve got a duty of care!?and she did a informal supervision meeting meant to have 1 weeks notice so I can write my questions down etc no she rocks up at 10pm and does meeting she had a book full of notes and saying this is your one and only chance to ask me anything well I’m sorry I was put on the spot my mind went blank didn’t ask what I would of liked to of asked meant to be giving client meds his supper etc as well ,  i don’t want to ask for copy what was said simply because she makes my life hell but again her word against mine (gaslighting) me that’s what she’s doing making me question my ability to do the job ( I’m more than capable ) I’m no skivvy I’m there to care for a man with dementia, oh I might add there was a cleaner hired then cleaner doesn’t come and now I’m all of a sudden given these extra duties , 

Undervalued

Kerrymakk said:

@Jillanddy that’s what I’m saying at my interview she never said my job duties would be picking up dog poo and scrubbing garden flags i was told general house work since when does dog poo and scrubbing flags become general house work then when I said to employer about that wasn’t said in my interview or on my contract she said HA think you you’ll find there is no job description in contract and yes i did tell you scrub flags and pick up dog poo and I know she didn’t 100% , she’s saying one thing then when I ask about it no I didn’t say that I said blah blah , she’s  gaslighting me I know what she’s doing but I want advice how to prove all this , I’ve also not had wage slips for months I’ve asked for them ( not up to me ) and I get excuse after excuse with her like payroll is closed or I’ve gone mad and payroll but the my assured me will have them by the end of the day still no wage slips , I’ve worked extra hours Which at interview was told add at the bottom of time sheet any extra hours I do with why I’ve done those extra hours , just been paid £180 short and apparently I’ve to ask permission to do extra hours which she says yet again was mentioned in interview , I take client to appointments which run late , take client to see wife who’s in nursing home , he has had a fall It was me that found him on the floor his face all smashed in , stayed With him till family arrived (1am) my shift finished at 11 so what she saying am I ok to do this overtime he’s fallen if I’ve not got permission I’m clocking off doesn’t work like that does it I’ve got a duty of care!?and she did a informal supervision meeting meant to have 1 weeks notice so I can write my questions down etc no she rocks up at 10pm and does meeting she had a book full of notes and saying this is your one and only chance to ask me anything well I’m sorry I was put on the spot my mind went blank didn’t ask what I would of liked to of asked meant to be giving client meds his supper etc as well ,  i don’t want to ask for copy what was said simply because she makes my life hell but again her word against mine (gaslighting) me that’s what she’s doing making me question my ability to do the job ( I’m more than capable ) I’m no skivvy I’m there to care for a man with dementia, oh I might add there was a cleaner hired then cleaner doesn’t come and now I’m all of a sudden given these extra duties , 

I am sorry but if there are any specific questions in this sold block of text then you are more likely to get an answer if you ask them separately!

Otherwise I think the general issues have be answered by Grumpy_chap earlier....

The absence of a job description is largely irrelevant in this as most job descriptions include a catch-all near the end along the lines of "and any other reasonable tasks".  If what you are doing falls within the widest remit of "personal assistant carer" then it is probably in the job description (even if you don't have one).

Jillanddy

You appear to not understand - whether or not these "extra jobs" were mentioned at interview is irrelevant. Whether you agree with them or not is irrelevant. No interview or even a job description will list every single activity that may be required of you, and you are being unreasonable expecting that. And I'm sorry but it is entirely common and normal that if you expect to be paid for more time than you are contracted, you ask for permission to work the extra hours. Even if that is, except for an emergency, warning your manager in advance that some things might overrun. And as an assistant, the needs of clients will be different - some may be needing you to prepare a meal and then "chit-chat" but this client is clearly not in that category. They have other care needs and that is what is expected of you. And supporting them to maintain a pet can certainly be a reasonable ask. I am not sure, given some of the duties associated with care work in respect of humans, why picking up some dog poo is so unreasonable. Are you saying that you are too good for that?

This general area of work abounds with poor employers, so I am not unsympathetic to some of your complaints. But you also appear to be unhappy/unsuited to this work as well, so it is perhaps best to seek employment in a situation which suits you better. There are other employers. 

Grumpy_chap

Kerrymakk said:

My shifts are breakfast , dinner ,tea and supper calls 1 hour each call to make the clients meals give medication general house cleaning duties but had a few issues with employer and now all of sudden I’ve to scrub garden flags , pick up dog poo scrub tiles etc all this daily as well as feed the client i feel like I’m not caring for the client i feel like I’m make his meal dumping him in front of tv while i Do these daily tasks I’ve not got time to interact with client ask he’s feeling general chit chat about his day , the client i care for has dementia I just honestly don’t think they are something I should be doing daily in a 1 hour visit i Know my job involves general house cleaning but scrubbing garden flags , dog poo !? 

Nothing you have mentioned falls outside the wider remit of "care".  

Indeed, to leave a person with dementia in the presence of dog / fox mess could be "uncaring" or neglect.  Sometimes, there is an element of reasonableness - was it a one-off or is it a regular thing?  If regular, does that mean the individual has their own pet they are unable to look after properly?  If the later, then a suitable dog-walker service might be required and a wider conversation to be had.  It is difficult, though, as no-one wants to be seen to be telling an individual that they have to give up their pet.

Scrubbing the garden flag stones is probably just once or twice a year.  If it is more than that and a gardener required, then that is a conversation to be had.  You seem to accept house cleaning is part of the role - so long as the priority areas are cleaned first (kitchen, bathroom, main living and welfare areas) does it matter whether you then clean the garden or scrub something else?  Whatever makes the individual most happy so long as they are not neglected in core areas.

Kerrymakk said:

I’ve also not had wage slips for months I’ve asked for them ( not up to me ) and I get excuse after excuse with her like payroll is closed or I’ve gone mad and payroll but the my assured me will have them by the end of the day still no wage slips ,

I’ve worked extra hours Which at interview was told add at the bottom of time sheet any extra hours I do with why I’ve done those extra hours , just been paid £180 short and apparently I’ve to ask permission to do extra hours which she says yet again was mentioned in interview ,

I assume you have been paid even if the paperwork is slow.

Advance permission to work extra time is common, otherwise you do extra time, the Client refuses to pay and the agency cannot recover the costs.  Especially so when the Client has dementia and may not remember asking for more, or may not have understood that asking for more would cost more.  Vulnerable Clients need to be treated with additional attention to ensure they understand and are receiving the care they request.

The example you mention of the fall is an exceptional case and, of course, any human being will look after another in thta circumstance.  Why did you wait for the family rather than call an ambulance?

Are you working direct for the person with dementia / their family, or are you working via an agency?

Kerrymakk

Grumpy_chap said:

Kerrymakk said:

My shifts are breakfast , dinner ,tea and supper calls 1 hour each call to make the clients meals give medication general house cleaning duties but had a few issues with employer and now all of sudden I’ve to scrub garden flags , pick up dog poo scrub tiles etc all this daily as well as feed the client i feel like I’m not caring for the client i feel like I’m make his meal dumping him in front of tv while i Do these daily tasks I’ve not got time to interact with client ask he’s feeling general chit chat about his day , the client i care for has dementia I just honestly don’t think they are something I should be doing daily in a 1 hour visit i Know my job involves general house cleaning but scrubbing garden flags , dog poo !? 

Nothing you have mentioned falls outside the wider remit of "care".  

Indeed, to leave a person with dementia in the presence of dog / fox mess could be "uncaring" or neglect.  Sometimes, there is an element of reasonableness - was it a one-off or is it a regular thing?  If regular, does that mean the individual has their own pet they are unable to look after properly?  If the later, then a suitable dog-walker service might be required and a wider conversation to be had.  It is difficult, though, as no-one wants to be seen to be telling an individual that they have to give up their pet.

Scrubbing the garden flag stones is probably just once or twice a year.  If it is more than that and a gardener required, then that is a conversation to be had.  You seem to accept house cleaning is part of the role - so long as the priority areas are cleaned first (kitchen, bathroom, main living and welfare areas) does it matter whether you then clean the garden or scrub something else?  Whatever makes the individual most happy so long as they are not neglected in core areas.

Kerrymakk said:

I’ve also not had wage slips for months I’ve asked for them ( not up to me ) and I get excuse after excuse with her like payroll is closed or I’ve gone mad and payroll but the my assured me will have them by the end of the day still no wage slips ,

I’ve worked extra hours Which at interview was told add at the bottom of time sheet any extra hours I do with why I’ve done those extra hours , just been paid £180 short and apparently I’ve to ask permission to do extra hours which she says yet again was mentioned in interview ,

I assume you have been paid even if the paperwork is slow.

Advance permission to work extra time is common, otherwise you do extra time, the Client refuses to pay and the agency cannot recover the costs.  Especially so when the Client has dementia and may not remember asking for more, or may not have understood that asking for more would cost more.  Vulnerable Clients need to be treated with additional attention to ensure they understand and are receiving the care they request.

The example you mention of the fall is an exceptional case and, of course, any human being will look after another in thta circumstance.  Why did you wait for the family rather than call an ambulance?

Are you working direct for the person with dementia / their family, or are you working via an agency?

Grumpy_chap said:

Kerrymakk said:

I work as a personal assistant carer No job description on my contract of what my duties should be ,which I know isn’t a necessity, but I’ve given some daily tasks to do which was not mentioned to me in my interview but my boss is saying she did but I know 100% she didn’t mention it . 

She says one thing to me then says she didn’t it’s her word against mine I feel she’s gaslighting me! But if there’s no job description on contract and I’m been given jobs to do that wasn’t mentioned to me in my interview and no evidence of what was said and  feel these task I’ve been  asked to do aren’t really my job to be doing, would this be classed as change of contract ? I’ve so many issues not just contract problems with my employer. 

What are you being asked to do that you do not feel is part of the job?

The absence of a job description is largely irrelevant in this as most job descriptions include a catch-all near the end along the lines of "and any other reasonable tasks".  If what you are doing falls within the widest remit of "personal assistant carer" then it is probably in the job description (even if you don't have one).

Grumpy chap
It’s direct payment to the family from local council and the granddaughter deals with wages etc she also works and covers my day off so she do the tasks she’s asked me to do!? Because she doesn’t do any! Or is that perks of been the boss she doesn’t have to . How do I know she doesn’t do this tasks can’t prove she doesn’t but the way I leave the mop and bucket when I leave work is still in the same spot and position as  I left when I finished my shift had  2 days off go back to work and it’s exactly the same as I left it so is the hoover and the garden shovel etc , she has 2 children which she takes with her to work that’s fine no problem but when I’ve had time off 2 days off go into work and her children’s toys are still left all over the floor I’m expected to clean them also , she tells me how I’m suppose to leave the workplace nice and tidy but she doesn’t kids toys all over the place , worktops not wiped down my list could go on and on , so it’s one rule for me and one rule for her again that’s probably all perks of been a boss ?!  I’ve been there since mid last year had 3 payslips isn’t it the law that payslips should be given on or just before payday . Had no P60 issued to me either again isn’t it the law that all employees are given these . My issue is I have one hour each call that’s to feed him given him medication, go to shop if things are needed take his dog out for a walk which I do and clean up the poo while I’m working , clean his bird out and feed and general cleaning like was all mentioned to me but to add extra in on top of what I’ve got to do already is wrong in my eyes and simply not got time to do In 1 hour . And I know I’ve been give these tasks to do because I’ve mentioned about a few issues like wage slips not been given and I want them as I’m entitled to them I’ve spoken to Acas today and what I’ve said I’m within my rights in what I’ve said she’s sabotaged me regarding meeting Acas words not mine I’ve been told to ask for copy of paperwork to do which may I add I’m dreading and feeling sick about because I know what’s to come when I do more extra tasks Maybe , snotty behaviour towards me also , the client I forgot to mention likes to go for daily walks which I also have to do he’s not so steady on feet etc but I’m getting questioned by granddaughter ( Boss) why extra tasks not been done . He’s got plenty of family to help him but are to bone idol too . I feel like I’m feeding client dumping off in front of tv while or table where ever he prefers to eat while I’m off doing extra tasks on top of usual tasks hours up Before I know it he’s only just finished eating then I’ve got to wash his pots etc which takes me slightly over my hour each call all adds up but I’ve got to ask permission when that was NOT at the interview i got told extra shifts pop on bottom of time sheet with explanation why  I did extra hours  but now she’s in snotty mode she’s saying something different .