PCP isn't MSE

Grumpy_chap

motorguy said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I don't think it is possible to answer the question whether PCP is (or is not) MSE, without also considering within that answer whether taking finance for a car is MSE.

And the reason that question cant be answered is because MSE is not about only buying what you "need".  Its about buying what you want at the best price possible.

There would be quite a compelling case to say buying a brand new car is not "money saving" because there are easily cheaper alternatives. 

MSE is not about saving money by only getting in life what you need its about ensuring you save money on what you want.

I quite happily agree that being MSE is not simply about meeting needs at lowest cost - else we'd all be wearing rags, driving Bangernomics and eating dry bread but with ££££ in the bank

BUT that extract you have commented upon is with reference to the previous poster linking car finance to mortgage finance.  The two are, IMO, not comparable:

• because one is meeting a need and (in normal expectations) an appreciating asset.  
• The other is rarely meeting a need but is meeting a want and a depreciating asset.

I also accept that the luxury mansion is meeting want in addition to need, so the want / need part can be ignored from both.  I still don't think that the finance can be considered as comparable because of the inherent difference between acquiring an appreciating or depreciating asset.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm very busy.  I've got to buy a static caravan to live in and an wire-wheeled E-Type to commute to work

motorguy

Jenni_D said:

motorguy said:

MSE is not about saving money by only getting in life what you need its about ensuring you save money on what you want.

It's deja vu all over again.

Indeed.....

fred246

Grumpy_chap said:

motorguy said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I don't think it is possible to answer the question whether PCP is (or is not) MSE, without also considering within that answer whether taking finance for a car is MSE.

And the reason that question cant be answered is because MSE is not about only buying what you "need".  Its about buying what you want at the best price possible.

There would be quite a compelling case to say buying a brand new car is not "money saving" because there are easily cheaper alternatives. 

MSE is not about saving money by only getting in life what you need its about ensuring you save money on what you want.

I quite happily agree that being MSE is not simply about meeting needs at lowest cost - else we'd all be wearing rags, driving Bangernomics and eating dry bread but with ££££ in the bank

BUT that extract you have commented upon is with reference to the previous poster linking car finance to mortgage finance.  The two are, IMO, not comparable:

• because one is meeting a need and (in normal expectations) an appreciating asset.  
• The other is rarely meeting a need but is meeting a want and a depreciating asset.

I also accept that the luxury mansion is meeting want in addition to need, so the want / need part can be ignored from both.  I still don't think that the finance can be considered as comparable because of the inherent difference between acquiring an appreciating or depreciating asset.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm very busy.  I've got to buy a static caravan to live in and an wire-wheeled E-Type to commute to work

Our next door neighbour used to have an E type. I used to see this never ending bonnet and finally a window. I could never work out how you could come out of a T junction. Surely someone would smash into the bonnet while you were trying to edge out to get a view.

motorguy

Grumpy_chap said:

motorguy said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I don't think it is possible to answer the question whether PCP is (or is not) MSE, without also considering within that answer whether taking finance for a car is MSE.

And the reason that question cant be answered is because MSE is not about only buying what you "need".  Its about buying what you want at the best price possible.

There would be quite a compelling case to say buying a brand new car is not "money saving" because there are easily cheaper alternatives. 

MSE is not about saving money by only getting in life what you need its about ensuring you save money on what you want.

I quite happily agree that being MSE is not simply about meeting needs at lowest cost - else we'd all be wearing rags, driving Bangernomics and eating dry bread but with ££££ in the bank

BUT that extract you have commented upon is with reference to the previous poster linking car finance to mortgage finance.  The two are, IMO, not comparable:

• because one is meeting a need and (in normal expectations) an appreciating asset.  
• The other is rarely meeting a need but is meeting a want and a depreciating asset.

I also accept that the luxury mansion is meeting want in addition to need, so the want / need part can be ignored from both.  I still don't think that the finance can be considered as comparable because of the inherent difference between acquiring an appreciating or depreciating asset.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm very busy.  I've got to buy a static caravan to live in and an wire-wheeled E-Type to commute to work

Great.  I'm glad we're all in agreement.

fred246

It's interesting comparing money spent on cars and money spent on property. In the last forty years my property is worth twice what I paid. Actually not great. My cars are worth less than one seventh and that is probably exceptionally good. The more you spend on property the more you will make. The opposite is true of cars.

Biggus_Dickus

fred246 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

motorguy said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I don't think it is possible to answer the question whether PCP is (or is not) MSE, without also considering within that answer whether taking finance for a car is MSE.

And the reason that question cant be answered is because MSE is not about only buying what you "need".  Its about buying what you want at the best price possible.

There would be quite a compelling case to say buying a brand new car is not "money saving" because there are easily cheaper alternatives. 

MSE is not about saving money by only getting in life what you need its about ensuring you save money on what you want.

I quite happily agree that being MSE is not simply about meeting needs at lowest cost - else we'd all be wearing rags, driving Bangernomics and eating dry bread but with ££££ in the bank

BUT that extract you have commented upon is with reference to the previous poster linking car finance to mortgage finance.  The two are, IMO, not comparable:

• because one is meeting a need and (in normal expectations) an appreciating asset.  
• The other is rarely meeting a need but is meeting a want and a depreciating asset.

I also accept that the luxury mansion is meeting want in addition to need, so the want / need part can be ignored from both.  I still don't think that the finance can be considered as comparable because of the inherent difference between acquiring an appreciating or depreciating asset.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm very busy.  I've got to buy a static caravan to live in and an wire-wheeled E-Type to commute to work

Our next door neighbour used to have an E type. I used to see this never ending bonnet and finally a window. I could never work out how you could come out of a T junction. Surely someone would smash into the bonnet while you were trying to edge out to get a view.

My mate had an e-type many many moons ago and that never ending bonnet certainly caused a few problems;..under heavy acceleration (which is something e-type drivers did all too frequently) the front end would lift alarmingly,....totally obscuring the view ahead.

Very dangerous in truth and it definitely scared the hell out of me as a passenger. Periodically driving ‘blind’ ain’t my idea of fun.

I don’t know if they all suffered that problem but my mates’ e-type certainly did. Other than that it was a thing of beauty. I don’t know if it’s still around somewhere but if it is the car will probably be worth a few bob now. 🤑

 

motorguy

fred246 said:

It's interesting comparing money spent on cars and money spent on property. In the last forty years my property is worth twice what I paid. Actually not great. My cars are worth less than one seventh and that is probably exceptionally good. The more you spend on property the more you will make. The opposite is true of cars.

Thats hardly Money Saving though is it?  Spending on more than you actually need?

And often larger properties / more expensive properties dont go up as quickly in value as smaller, more financially accessible ones.  In fact sometimes they can go down in value especially when you factor in inflation.

Also bigger, more expensive properties come with larger maintenance costs and generally need to be kept to a higher standard of finish.

And finally, a bigger purchase means a bigger mortgage.  A bigger mortgage means a bigger interest payment.

I'm certainly not averse to a more expensive property, just surprised those who claim to be all about the Money Saving and needs not wants are?

motorguy

Biggus_Dickus said:

fred246 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

motorguy said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I don't think it is possible to answer the question whether PCP is (or is not) MSE, without also considering within that answer whether taking finance for a car is MSE.

And the reason that question cant be answered is because MSE is not about only buying what you "need".  Its about buying what you want at the best price possible.

There would be quite a compelling case to say buying a brand new car is not "money saving" because there are easily cheaper alternatives. 

MSE is not about saving money by only getting in life what you need its about ensuring you save money on what you want.

I quite happily agree that being MSE is not simply about meeting needs at lowest cost - else we'd all be wearing rags, driving Bangernomics and eating dry bread but with ££££ in the bank

BUT that extract you have commented upon is with reference to the previous poster linking car finance to mortgage finance.  The two are, IMO, not comparable:

• because one is meeting a need and (in normal expectations) an appreciating asset.  
• The other is rarely meeting a need but is meeting a want and a depreciating asset.

I also accept that the luxury mansion is meeting want in addition to need, so the want / need part can be ignored from both.  I still don't think that the finance can be considered as comparable because of the inherent difference between acquiring an appreciating or depreciating asset.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm very busy.  I've got to buy a static caravan to live in and an wire-wheeled E-Type to commute to work

Our next door neighbour used to have an E type. I used to see this never ending bonnet and finally a window. I could never work out how you could come out of a T junction. Surely someone would smash into the bonnet while you were trying to edge out to get a view.

My mate had an e-type many many moons ago and that never ending bonnet certainly caused a few problems;..under heavy acceleration (which is something e-type drivers did all too frequently) the front end would lift alarmingly,....totally obscuring the view ahead.

Very dangerous in truth and it definitely scared the hell out of me as a passenger. Periodically driving ‘blind’ ain’t my idea of fun.

I don’t know if they all suffered that problem but my mates’ e-type certainly did. Other than that it was a thing of beauty. I don’t know if it’s still around somewhere but if it is the car will probably be worth a few bob now. 🤑

 

They were / are indeed a thing of great beauty but not the most practical / usable of things.  But then thats as how a big, opulent coupe should be.  

Supercars nowadays are quite easily driven however its not that long ago that a Porsche 911 Turbo was known as a Widow Maker and a Lamborghini required considerable time to be allowed to get in and out of it with any sort of dignity and once in there you could see nothing behind you any way.

A friend of mine has three Lotus Esprits and i went for a run with him in one.  Horrible thing inside.  Was much more fun looking at it than driving it / being in it.

Keep_pedalling

thegentleway said:

My mum just bought a fairly newish i20 and despite her being able to pay for it in cash the salesman tried to sell it to her on PCP on the premise that petrols/diesel are going to be worthless soon with the electric revolution...

If the PCP deal came with a contribution, the MSE thing to do would be to go with it, but for no longer than 14 days. I ordered a new EV today, something I can afford to buy outright but to get the best price I have to go through the idiotic process of signing up for PCP, then once I have my hands on the car pay off the finance the next day. 

Grumpy_chap

Keep_pedalling said:

If the PCP deal came with a contribution, the MSE thing to do would be to go with it, but for no longer than 14 days. I ordered a new EV today, something I can afford to buy outright but to get the best price I have to go through the idiotic process of signing up for PCP, then once I have my hands on the car pay off the finance the next day. 

Out of interest, which EV?
I agree this 'incentives' for PCP process absurd.