New Boiler- combination a few questions

wilson1972

Hi All, hope someone can help with a few queries
I have an old boiler that is becoming unreliable and needs replacing, its a combi boiler but for some reason british gas fitted it to the tank in the loft for hot water (i have since had water pressure checked and it is fine).
British gas quoted £3.6k to sort this out and install a proper combi boiler that is not fed from the tank- all in price. I thought that was high so got a local gas registered plumber in to quote instead. The plumber seemed astonished we had a combi boiler fed by a tank. He has given me 3 quotes for 'all in' installation - ranging from 2.3k for a baxi to 2.6k for a worcester (with an ideal in between at 2450). Given there is extra work due to switching over from a tank- does that seem reasonable? Its over 1k cheaper than british gas.

Also i am debt free but will need finance to pay for this, that isnt a problem as my credit is good. However when i got quotes from my bank for 5k it was 3.9% apr  and when i got a quote for 3k it was far higher at 12.9%, is this normal? Is it possible to borrow more for the cheaper apr then pay it off early or will the early settlement penalty make that unviable?
Thanks

[Deleted User]

It's normal, as the rate you get is based on both the risk you represent and the amount you borrow.

You can borrow more and repay a lump sum subject to the ERC, but bear in mind that the monthly payments are likely to stay the same, with the term reducing.

grumbler

wilson1972 said:

Also i am debt free but will need finance to pay for this, that isnt a problem as my credit is good. However when i got quotes from my bank for 5k it was 3.9% apr  and when i got a quote for 3k it was far higher at 12.9%, is this normal? Is it possible to borrow more for the cheaper apr then pay it off early or will the early settlement penalty make that unviable?

It's possible, but depends on the T&C where some sort of early repayment fees can be hidden. 12.9% loan is a rip-off. Try applying for a credit card with 0% on purchases, but the credit limit will depend on your circumstances.

There are many companies (including BG) that offer so-called 'interest-free' credits on boiler installations. So-called - because the interest is just included into the price, but it's worth shopping around.

Big companies are more expensive. I think BG is notorious for this.

Regarding the tank in the loft, I am no expert, but AFAIK, combi boilers need 1bar+  pressure, that a tank cannot provide. Are you sure that it's really the case? If it really is, IMO connecting a new boiler to mains water is neither a big nor an expensive job.

wilson1972

grumbler said:

wilson1972 said:

Also i am debt free but will need finance to pay for this, that isnt a problem as my credit is good. However when i got quotes from my bank for 5k it was 3.9% apr  and when i got a quote for 3k it was far higher at 12.9%, is this normal? Is it possible to borrow more for the cheaper apr then pay it off early or will the early settlement penalty make that unviable?

It's possible, but depends on the T&C where some sort of early repayment fees can be hidden. 12.9% loan is a rip-off. Try applying for a credit card with 0% on purchases, but the credit limit will depend on your circumstances.

There are many companies (including BG) that offer so-called 'interest-free' credits on boiler installations. So-called - because the interest is just included into the price, but it's worth shopping around.

Big companies are more expensive. I think BG is notorious for this.

Regarding the tank in the loft, I am no expert, but AFAIK, combi boilers need 1bar+  pressure, that a tank cannot provide. Are you sure that it's really the case? If it really is, IMO connecting a new boiler to mains water is neither a big nor an expensive job.

Yeh the 12.9 and 3.9 were from the same company, i could not believe how much the apr jumped when i lowered the amount!
Ive just tried the loan eligibility checker and it says 95% chance of a loan with tesco and a suggested rate of 3.6% which isnt bad, but ill look at the 0% credit cards - i have a credit card with zero balance on it (4.5k limit) but i think the apr is quite high.

As for the tank - thats what british gas said, and there is a label on the boiler saying 'to tank' . But when i mentioned it to the local plumber he did look bemused.

I asked for more quotes from checkatrade and only one local plumber bothered to respond, does 2.3k seem a reasonable 'all in' price?
Thanks again i appreciate the responses, i am not the best with DIY stuff.

grumbler

wilson1972 said:

grumbler said:

wilson1972 said:

Also i am debt free but will need finance to pay for this, that isnt a problem as my credit is good. However when i got quotes from my bank for 5k it was 3.9% apr  and when i got a quote for 3k it was far higher at 12.9%, is this normal? Is it possible to borrow more for the cheaper apr then pay it off early or will the early settlement penalty make that unviable?

It's possible, but depends on the T&C where some sort of early repayment fees can be hidden. 12.9% loan is a rip-off. Try applying for a credit card with 0% on purchases, but the credit limit will depend on your circumstances.

There are many companies (including BG) that offer so-called 'interest-free' credits on boiler installations. So-called - because the interest is just included into the price, but it's worth shopping around.

Big companies are more expensive. I think BG is notorious for this.

Regarding the tank in the loft, I am no expert, but AFAIK, combi boilers need 1bar+  pressure, that a tank cannot provide. Are you sure that it's really the case? If it really is, IMO connecting a new boiler to mains water is neither a big nor an expensive job.

  i have a credit card with zero balance on it (4.5k limit) but i think the apr is quite high.

Some CC companies have regular deals for existing customers on balance transfers. Check yours.

In this case you can pay by any other CC and transfer the balance to the one you currently have.

Jeepers_Creepers

£2.3k is perfectly reasonable, especially if they remove all the old - and now unneeded - tanks in the loft. Possibly worth stretching to the WB as it's generally reckoned to be a better make, but other will hopefully confirm. Not sure where Ideal fits in; Baxi, Idea and WB are all well known makes, and are generally ok, but they'll all had good and bad years, so it would be useful for a knowledgeable GasSafe to be able to give an unbiased opinion on their current models.

The situation with the tank in the loft is weird, to be sure, but there are actually a few possible explanations. Do you have a hot cylinder? If so, it's quite possible your combi has been set up as a 'conventional' boiler which heats up this cylicnder! Or, if the cold mains supply has a pants flow, then perhaps a plumber thought the cold supply to the combi's DHW would be best served via a tank in the loft?! Who knows!  As Grumb says, unvented boilers need 1 bar of cold supply in order to pressurise them, but perhaps not necessarily to supply the hot flow. Anyhoo, I don't think that's important.

What is important is that your cold main supply is good enough in both flow and pressure to supply a modern combi boiler. You say this has been checked and "it's fine"? Could you tell us the actual readings in 'bar' pressure and 'litres-per-minute- flow?

Of equal importance is what size of boiler are you going for? Pretty much regardless of the size of your house/flat, if you want a decent hot flow from your taps and showers, then I'd strongly recommend 30kW as a minimum. Which models are they recommending?

wilson1972

Hi
Ive just had another local plumber in who ferreted around in the loft and confirmed that upstairs water is from a tank, he said he had never seen this set up before!...the british gas engineer verbally told me our pressure was fine for a combi but didnt specify any details, do i need to get this checked separately? i have very little faith in british gas right now.

The second plumber said he thinks baxi give worcester a run for their money nowadays and recommended one.

The second plumber is sending a formal quote but said 2.8k so i am inclined to just go with the first local plumber at 2.3k but i am unsure now whether i need separate checking of water pressure?
The quotes are all for a 30kw boiler.

wilson1972

Just tried the kitchen cold tap downstairs, which is off the mains? It fills a litre jug of water in 2 seconds, not sure if this confirms what the british gas guy said?

warwick2001

I live in the north west, so prices are probably cheaper, but I recently replaced my combi boiler. For a brand new Baxi, with 5 yr guarantee, plus fitting, all in cost just over £1.5k. Was a straight swap, no pipe work needed.

I suspect with the additional gubbings your set up has, approx. £2.5k sounds about right. In my experience BG are ALWAYS more expensive than using a local gas-safe engineer. 

BUFF

In my experience BG are ALWAYS more expensive than using a local gas-safe engineer. 

In days of old when I used to be a supplier to the heating & plumbing trade I had 1 contractor tell me a story of when both he & BG (& possibly others) were asked to quote for a new central heating system in a house. The house owners ultimately decided to go for the considerably dearer BG quote because "well, it's BG". As it happened BG sub-contracted out the job to the contractor & the householders were less than amused to find out that they were paying BG's price when they could have had exactly the same work by the same installer for considerably less ...

wilson1972

BUFF said:

In my experience BG are ALWAYS more expensive than using a local gas-safe engineer. 

In days of old when I used to be a supplier to the heating & plumbing trade I had 1 contractor tell me a story of when both he & BG (& possibly others) were asked to quote for a new central heating system in a house. The house owners ultimately decided to go for the considerably dearer BG quote because "well, it's BG". As it happened BG sub-contracted out the job to the contractor & the householders were less than amused to find out that they were paying BG's price when they could have had exactly the same work by the same installer for considerably less ...

I would not be happy, im a bit confused now though, i have massive flow rate on the downstairs tap which i assumed was mains as it has to be potable?
When i maxxed out the cold tap upstairs in the bathroom the downstairs tap was still fast but did slow slightly so it seems they are on the same system??
I am really confused - there is no way we would have kitchen water from the tank surely?