Buying a home with a low EPC

Section62

LAD917 said:

True. The flats / buildings I'm referring to have nothing original other than the front facade. They're listed as part of a group of similar buildings that together give an impression of a typical Victorian terrace. They aren't distinctive - they could be anywhere in the UK, and there are thousands of other buildings that look almost exactly like them. The inside is a 1980s rebuild.

Again, listing isn't just about 'original' features. Listing of a building is usually an attempt to preserve the story of a building, which very often involves multiple changes through the years.  The interest is in how different generations added to the building in their own styles and using materials of the time.  We are part of that story, and our own additions will form part of that record.

Part of the process of listed building consent and defining conservation areas is to stop people applying their own personal interpretation of what a listed building should look like. E.g. folks who think adding a "Ye Olde Cottage" sign, or fake beams, is a 'restoration'.

There may be thousands of buildings that look like the ones you refer to, but that doesn't mean they don't have interest - either in the way the 1980's rebuild has been done, or the grouping. The actual listing will normally explain exactly why they have been listed.

LAD917 said:

Luckily, at least I was allowed to exhaust a gas boiler through the (non-original) rear facade. My front-facing neighbours were stuck with electric heat because they weren't able to exhaust a gas boiler through the facade. These properties will forever have EPCs in the E/F range until the council takes more reasonable stances.

People bashing holes through walls to fit boilers cause all kinds of problems. Average plumbers are not good bricklayers and 'making' good for them typically involves getting the trainee to stick in some mismatched bricks and smear mortar all over the place. Plenty of modern (non-listed) buildings have had their appearance harmed in that way, particularly as regulations on venting have changed over the years.

Rather than being 'stuck' with electric heating, those neighbours have been saved from permanently disfiguring their home. When domestic gas heating is banned (as it will be one day) all those houses with gas boilers will eventually need to have those flue/vent holes filled in. In many cases it won't look pretty.

It isn't for the council to take a 'more reasonable stance', it is for EPC legislation and homeowner expectations to catch up with the idea that gas boilers are not a panacea, and to look at the alternatives.

LAD917 said:

I do think property owners in conservation areas / listed buildings deserve some clarity now as to whether we will be given an exemption from EPC requirements, or whether rules will change giving us a realistic path to C. I would also like to see the burden shift, with certain energy efficient improvements allowed by default unless the council can prove it would seriously harm the character of the building.

What is your definition of "serious harm"?

One person might think a "Ye Olde Cottage" sign is the perfect finishing touch. The next person could think it hideous. The owner of a building is usually quite biased, meaning that a third-party (e.g. the council) needs to be involved to take an independent view.

LAD917 said:

Is it better for the planet for rows of fairly standard Victorian terraces to have single-glazed windows (many of which cannot be seen from public land) so an erudite <1% of the population can admire the "beauty" of single-pane glass, or better to have something more energy efficient that looks the same to 99+% of people and still preserves the character of the neighbourhood? We're not talking about the Mona Lisa (or about uPVC!).

I don't think the planet cares very much about the energy consumption of the small number of listed buildings and buildings in conservation areas.  Far more energy is likely to be wasted in providing building materials for constant refurbishment to follow the latest fashion.

If energy conservation is the priority then you should consider legislating for a minimum length of time before bathrooms and kitchens can be ripped out and replaced, a ban on domestic artificial turf, and significantly restricting the percentage of gardens that can be covered in concrete or decking. (policies which wouldn't be popular)

Glass manufacture is very energy intensive. Before trashing those windows it is worth figuring out how long it will take to 'save' the equivalent energy used in making the replacements. And then consider whether alternatives such as secondary glazing, thick curtains, shutters etc could achieve much of that energy saving instead.

Niv

Petriix said:

It's entirely possible to properly insulate any property, and arguably something worth doing as early as possible in your ownership. It's fairly simple to add a layer of insulated plasterboard to the inside of solid external walls. Heating costs add up over the years.

haha, nope. You would not be able to do that to my place very easily if at all practically.

macman

Are you likely to want to rent the property out in the future, or sell it as a BTL? If so, look elsewhere, unless you are confident you can get it up to an E rating.

Weathergirl_76

I recently had an EPC done in order to put my house on the market. It came out at a D. Some of the suggestions provided to increase the bracket were (to me) ridiculous. Like suggestion an outlay of £4-6K on solar water heating to save £37 a year. 

I wonder if it’s an incentive, so that people buy new builds as,opposed to older properties that are less eco friendly. Didn’t they do this with cars too? 

ic

EPCs are nuts.  I sold a Victorian terraced house with CWI, loft insulation, draught proofed, weather compensating condensing boiler, triple glazed throughout - came out at band D.  Sold a similar age house a few months later, but four times the size.  Uninsulated solid wall, only loft insulation, double glazed, condensing boiler to only a few rooms (most rooms unheated) - came out band C.  Really have to take the reports with a pinch of salt.

MaryNB

ic said:

EPCs are nuts.  I sold a Victorian terraced house with CWI, loft insulation, draught proofed, weather compensating condensing boiler, triple glazed throughout - came out at band D.  Sold a similar age house a few months later, but four times the size.  Uninsulated solid wall, only loft insulation, double glazed, condensing boiler to only a few rooms (most rooms unheated) - came out band C.  Really have to take the reports with a pinch of salt.

I used to live in a basement flat in a pre 1880 building with an EPC of E. The flat above had an EPC of C. The only differences were we had energy efficient bulbs, the flat above didn't, and our flat got marked down for not having any roof insulation, the flat above didn't get marked down because there was another flat above it. How the flat above had an EPC rating of C with no wall insulation, single glazing (which I presume was as draughty as ours) and no energy efficient light bulbs was just nonsense. 

moneysavingchump

Houses with the lowest EPC ratings are the best ones. I'd buy your house. I wish Rightmove would have a filter so you can filter out all the overly insulated ones and just view the decent ones.

Weathergirl_76

Is it also worth noting the best insulated houses with the best EPCs, are also the ones that are roasting when the weather is hot.