Used Car - Engine Damage .......any comeback on the Garage/ dealership?

Chops99

On Saturday I went to start my 2017 Honda Civic to take me home and after what I thought was me stalling it I couldnt get it going and was left with a screeching noise trying to start it up. Green Flag recovery guy was puzzled but diagnosed the timing chain to be broken with damage likely to the rest of the engine as a result. I've had it 4 months and done 3k miles in it so was gutted to say the least. Having done 45k there is no way the chain should fail and he couldn't understand it. He towed me to a garage and car is currently sitting outside there. Looking at 1 to 1.5k to repair
I bought if from a car supermarket 60 miles away.
Questions
Have I got any comeback to the used dealer who sold it me? Am I right in thinking the have a responsibility to repair it as its not wear and tear and within 6 months of me buying it?
When I've had that conversation should I be expecting them to arrange transport of the car from where it is now to their garage 60 miles away?
TIA

k3lvc

A lot depends on what your warranty says ? You're first port of call should be to either warranty company/supplying 'supermarket' and see what they say before trying to decide what 'rights' you're going to assert with them.

If you don't have a warranty then in reality it's up to you to prove the fault existed at the point of purchase - and given the time/mileage elapsed since then I can't see you having much success with that.

Your other option given the age/mileage and assuming it's had a full Honda service history is to look at requesting assistance from Honda as it's not too far out of warranty/still has reasonable mileage

Chops99

I dont have a warranty
Is it not for them to prove the fault didn't exist at the time of purchase? Bearing in mind its not a wear and tear issue and me having it 4 months.
I am trying to engage with the car supermarket at the moment but so far being very evasive and not getting back to me

Penguin_

Chops99 said:

I dont have a warranty
Is it not for them to prove the fault didn't exist at the time of purchase? Bearing in mind its not a wear and tear issue and me having it 4 months.
I am trying to engage with the car supermarket at the moment but so far being very evasive and not getting back to me

It might be that you have to prove it was there at the time of purchase.

k3lvc

Chops99 said:

I dont have a warranty

How did you manage to buy a 4yo car from a dealer with no warranty ? Or you just chose the cheap 3mth option and hoped for the best.

You're making a big assumption that it's not a wear and tear issue - belts/chains break and that's what warranties are for - especially if it's led a previously hard/neglected life (hence the question re service history). Sure if it had gone bang within a couple of days or had immediate warning lights on then you may have some immediate comeback but not after 4m/3k miles

The Supermarket is unlikely to make things easy for you - the chances are you're going to have to go to them with a watertight case and that's going to involve some work/cost from your perspective

AdrianC

Chops99 said:

Is it not for them to prove the fault didn't exist at the time of purchase?

Under six months, yes. The onus is on them to show the fault was not present at the time of purchase. Which shouldn't be hard, since it ran perfectly well for four months and 3,000 miles...

Bearing in mind its not a wear and tear issue

What are you basing that on?

cajef

Which model Civic is it the model change to the latest one was in 2017, the later 1.0 turbo model has a timing belt and the 1.5 turbo has a chain, the models prior to the change were chains, has it got a full Honda service history?

Ectophile

AdrianC said:

Chops99 said:

Is it not for them to prove the fault didn't exist at the time of purchase?

Under six months, yes. The onus is on them to show the fault was not present at the time of purchase. Which shouldn't be hard, since it ran perfectly well for four months and 3,000 miles...

Bearing in mind its not a wear and tear issue

What are you basing that on?

I think that is overly simplistic.  It's quite possible for goods to have a latent fault at the time of sale, which means that they are bound to fail before long.

It needs an expert mechanic to dismantle the engine and work out why the chain failed.  If the engine has a manufacturing fault that has destroyed the chain before the end of it's expected life, then that would be a defect that was present at the time of sale.

AdrianC

Ectophile said:

AdrianC said:

Chops99 said:

Is it not for them to prove the fault didn't exist at the time of purchase?

Under six months, yes. The onus is on them to show the fault was not present at the time of purchase. Which shouldn't be hard, since it ran perfectly well for four months and 3,000 miles...

Bearing in mind its not a wear and tear issue

What are you basing that on?

I think that is overly simplistic.  It's quite possible for goods to have a latent fault at the time of sale, which means that they are bound to fail before long.

It needs an expert mechanic to dismantle the engine and work out why the chain failed.  If the engine has a manufacturing fault that has destroyed the chain before the end of it's expected life, then that would be a defect that was present at the time of sale.

"Overly simplistic" is as good as you're going to get short of commissioning expert reports. And they ain't free.

The odds of a manufacturing fault waiting until a vehicle is 4yo with 45k on the clock are slender.

Chops99

just by way of an update....
spoke to the Car Supermarket and they asked me to contact a Honda main dealer and see if the manufacturer was willing to show any 'good will' to repair the car as timing chain going at 45k could be a known issue and should not happen etc
Was sceptical but main dealer agreed to have a look, diagnose and take some pics and see if Honda will repair. I agreed to pay them a diagnostic fee (which i may try to get the Car Supermarket to pay later depending on how things go) and they arranged recovery. Its with them now. 
I've actually only done 1,200 miles in it and feel once its been with Honda I can make a case under the consumer goods act that the Car Supermarket are obliged to repair it. I;m not sure that within the first 6 months the fault has to have been there, maybe potential to make the case it wasn't of sufficient quality, fir for purpose etc...we'll see
As an added bonus while it was at the side of the road someone has reversed into it and driven off, front wing and part of the door quite badly damaged. 

jimjames

If the timing chain isn't a service item and Honda state that it is not part of required maintenance then they should be looking into why a sub 4 year old chain has failed as it would seem to be their issue.