Scottish property purchase advice please

Peterrr

Hi all - seeking the wisdom of those familiar with the Scottish property market game... We have viewed a city centre flat that we are very keen on and don't know the best approach to take with this "offers over" process. It only came on the market this week and we viewed it straight away. the owner was actually the person to show us around and was very amenable, so I cheekily asked if he had a price for which he'd immediately agree a deal and remove it from the market - he gave me a figure 15% above the advertised "offers over" price and 5% above the homebuyer's report valuation. I winced and offered a vague reply about such being beyond us. He even gave me his mobile phone number in case I have any questions.
So, should we go straight in with an offer (and if so, what would the current market suggest to be an appropriate price relative to asking/valuation)? Also would it be better to negotiate with the chap directly or via our solicitor? Alternatively should we have a solicitor submit a 'note of interest' and await any closing date (though risk him closing with another buyer before such even came to pass)?
The buyer is our son, who is chain free with finance in place and ready to go (though in no particular rush) so hopefully such makes him an attractive proposition for a smooth transaction.
Thanks for any local advise/knowledge/guidance!

user1977

Assuming you've been keeping on eye on similar properties, are they typically going to closing dates? If so then 5% above the HR valuation would be relatively easy for them to achieve. You can do a bit more research into final prices achieved vs HR valuations once you've been looking for long enough.

What sort of flat (and which city)? In case it's not already obvious, anything high-rise and/or involving cladding is problematic, and blocks with commercial elements to them (or too close to the more "vibrant" bits of city centres) reduce the marketability/mortgageability.

Solicitor should be able to offer more specific advice anyway.

[Deleted User]

Peterrr said:

Hi all - seeking the wisdom of those familiar with the Scottish property market game... We have viewed a city centre flat that we are very keen on and don't know the best approach to take with this "offers over" process. It only came on the market this week and we viewed it straight away. the owner was actually the person to show us around and was very amenable, so I cheekily asked if he had a price for which he'd immediately agree a deal and remove it from the market - he gave me a figure 15% above the advertised "offers over" price and 5% above the homebuyer's report valuation. I winced and offered a vague reply about such being beyond us. He even gave me his mobile phone number in case I have any questions.
So, should we go straight in with an offer (and if so, what would the current market suggest to be an appropriate price relative to asking/valuation)? Also would it be better to negotiate with the chap directly or via our solicitor? Alternatively should we have a solicitor submit a 'note of interest' and await any closing date (though risk him closing with another buyer before such even came to pass)?
The buyer is our son, who is chain free with finance in place and ready to go (though in no particular rush) so hopefully such makes him an attractive proposition for a smooth transaction.
Thanks for any local advise/knowledge/guidance!

Local advice? We only know the flat is in a Scottish city so that doesn’t give people much to go on.  What has your solicitor, or rather your son’s solicitor since he appears to be the one buying, suggested?

We don’t really have chains when buying in Scotland so your son being “chain free” doesn’t make him particularly attractive. 

Peterrr

Thanks and apologies - by local I mean Scottish, as the process is very different to that in England with the "offers over" rather than asking price. It's  in central Glasgow with no cladding issues, walkable to the centre and colleges/universities so may be about to get more popular. We are trying to engage a solicitor now that we have found a flat we/he likes, but being a bank holiday Monday have yet to speak to one.
The market appears to be hit and miss, with some coming off the market within a couple of days, while others remain unsold for months (no doubt mainly due to pricing). The market in general appears to be quite 'hot' for small flats in the area

[Deleted User]

My understanding (just from my own experience in Scotland) is that all communication usually goes through the solicitor, as well as offers placed. In saying that, I placed an offer on a house just outside Glasgow recently (really lovely, personable owner who was happy to answer questions about price etc. much like the owner you mention) and went through a solicitor to place my offer, by which point someone else had already placed a significantly higher one that was accepted (even though mine was approx 13% over). It has occurred to me since that I should have asked for the owner's number as I was so keen on the house that I would have loved to know what the other person had offered and possibly offer more...however, I guess that's what solicitors are for! Maybe someone else could confirm, but I imagine there may be some legal issues involved in liaising with the seller directly. 

I believe the next step would be to hire a solicitor and place a note of interest (tomorrow ideally), perhaps place an offer if you decide you'd like to do so. You'll be kept informed of any movement, and whether the property will go to a closing date, if enough interest is expressed. In my case, the offer that was made was large enough that there was no necessity for a closing date - it was just taken off the market. Good luck!

[Deleted User]

Deleted_User said:

My understanding (just from my own experience in Scotland) is that all communication usually goes through the solicitor, as well as offers placed. In saying that, I placed an offer on a house just outside Glasgow recently (really lovely, personable owner who was happy to answer questions about price etc. much like the owner you mention) and went through a solicitor to place my offer, by which point someone else had already placed a significantly higher one that was accepted (even though mine was approx 13% over). It has occurred to me since that I should have asked for the owner's number as I was so keen on the house that I would have loved to know what the other person had offered and possibly offer more...however, I guess that's what solicitors are for! Maybe someone else could confirm, but I imagine there may be some legal issues involved in liaising with the seller directly. 

I believe the next step would be to hire a solicitor and place a note of interest (tomorrow ideally), perhaps place an offer if you decide you'd like to do so. You'll be kept informed of any movement, and whether the property will go to a closing date, if enough interest is expressed. In my case, the offer that was made was large enough that there was no necessity for a closing date - it was just taken off the market. Good luck!

The other offer had been accepted so you even if you had tried to offer more the vendor’s solicitor wouldn’t have allowed them to accept your offer and been allowed to continue working for the vendor. It’s why gazumping is virtually unheard of in Scotland. 

[Deleted User]

Peterrr said:

Thanks and apologies - by local I mean Scottish, as the process is very different to that in England with the "offers over" rather than asking price. It's  in central Glasgow with no cladding issues, walkable to the centre and colleges/universities so may be about to get more popular. We are trying to engage a solicitor now that we have found a flat we/he likes, but being a bank holiday Monday have yet to speak to one.
The market appears to be hit and miss, with some coming off the market within a couple of days, while others remain unsold for months (no doubt mainly due to pricing). The market in general appears to be quite 'hot' for small flats in the area

The process is quite different and in my opinion a lot more civilised. There are plenty of references online that explain how the process works and the first thing that you, or rather your son, needs to do is get a solicitor. There’s no point viewing places if he doesn’t have a solicitor to make an offer or at least put in a note of interest especially if the market appears to be quite hot. 

https://www.mygov.scot/buying-a-home

https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/cost-timeline-for-buying-a-property-in-scotland

Peterrr

Thanks Deleted_User. Our concern is whether making an offer might lead to a bidding war with the vendor or their solicitor playing us off against other bidders. On the other hand waiting for a closing date that might never happen as per your experience. Rather stressful! I've just texted the seller to let him know we're interested in the meantime. I can't imagine there's any law against negotiating directly - but for sure it would have to be formalised via solicitor to be binding.

user1977

Peterrr said:

Our concern is whether making an offer might lead to a bidding war with the vendor or their solicitor playing us off against other bidders.

You don't get "bidding wars" in Scotland really. If there's more than one buyer ready to make an offer, they set a closing date. If it's the sort of property where a closing date is likely, your solicitor can check out whether the sellers are open to an early (and sufficiently attractive) offer, rather than show your hand too early - or whether it's better just to wait until a closing date.

[Deleted User]

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Deleted_User said:

My understanding (just from my own experience in Scotland) is that all communication usually goes through the solicitor, as well as offers placed. In saying that, I placed an offer on a house just outside Glasgow recently (really lovely, personable owner who was happy to answer questions about price etc. much like the owner you mention) and went through a solicitor to place my offer, by which point someone else had already placed a significantly higher one that was accepted (even though mine was approx 13% over). It has occurred to me since that I should have asked for the owner's number as I was so keen on the house that I would have loved to know what the other person had offered and possibly offer more...however, I guess that's what solicitors are for! Maybe someone else could confirm, but I imagine there may be some legal issues involved in liaising with the seller directly. 

I believe the next step would be to hire a solicitor and place a note of interest (tomorrow ideally), perhaps place an offer if you decide you'd like to do so. You'll be kept informed of any movement, and whether the property will go to a closing date, if enough interest is expressed. In my case, the offer that was made was large enough that there was no necessity for a closing date - it was just taken off the market. Good luck!

The other offer had been accepted so you even if you had tried to offer more the vendor’s solicitor wouldn’t have allowed them to accept your offer and been allowed to continue working for the vendor. It’s why gazumping is virtually unheard of in Scotland. 

Sorry, I should have clarified that the other offer was made, my solicitor phoned to let me know about it (obviously couldn't say how much but that it was significantly higher than asking) and I was given the opportunity to place an offer before the other one was accepted, about an hour later. 

Peterrr said:

Thanks Deleted_User. Our concern is whether making an offer might lead to a bidding war with the vendor or their solicitor playing us off against other bidders. On the other hand waiting for a closing date that might never happen as per your experience. Rather stressful! I've just texted the seller to let him know we're interested in the meantime. I can't imagine there's any law against negotiating directly - but for sure it would have to be formalised via solicitor to be binding.

I think it would be a good idea to think of the maximum you'd be willing to pay, under the above circumstances, and not waver from this, even in the event that a lot of people are showing interest. If it is legal to contact the seller (which it seems to be), this would be great then leave the formalities up to the solicitor. The thing I've noticed is that sellers can get a bit greedy (understandably) so may say £x as the price they're after, but if they are offered more than this, they might decide to see if they can get an even higher amount. There's a lot of guesswork involved!

jen245

Here in Scotland, it's normal for homes to go for 10-20% over home report valuation, so you really need to factor this into your budget, as lenders will lend only based on the home report valuation. Any amount you offer over home report you need to fund yourself on top of your mortgage deposit.
If the seller doesn't accept your offer and the property goes to a closing date, you will have the opportunity to submit your best and final offer on the date of closing via your solicitor. For this reason, I'd advise getting your solicitor to put a note of interest on the property so that you're kept informed if a closing date is set. 
A word of warning, as someone who is buying at the moment, the market here is crazy (Central Belt) with homes going for silly money over home report, so don't get too attached to properties. Put in your best offer, if you're not successful, move onto the next property. We lost out on 5 houses before getting the one we're currently buying. It can get very frustrating.