NO NO NO! No longer about to feed these "monsters"!

nicky_boo

Ok, I read the newbies thread and a few others.

I had PCNs twice before. I cannot remember the exact dates but can be before 2012. I ignored them and after quite a few letters they went away. These were before motherhood and I must have had nerves of steel.

9 years on, I received a new one today from UKPS. I parked at a college car park by a children's playground. I saw that permit was required but it was 4pm on a Friday and not seeing permits on other cars, I risked it. Car park was only 10% full. I had done the same once before, two weeks prior to this incident - no letter received then - could it  still be on its way to me?  PCN says: "Permit Required. Unauthorised parking"

I can see that the advice has changed and "don't ignore it" is written everywhere on this forum. Has anybody took a risk and ignored it and what happened?

Secondly, I am at fault. Although the penalty is far too harsh, I feel weak and want this to go away as I have too much on my plate right now. I feel I don't have a leg to stand on if it comes to writing a POPLA appeal and fighting this looks like a long winded and hard and painful road - just reading the threads wore me out. I am about to give up. Do all steps always happen or are you preparing us for the worst?

Can anybody give me an idea on what my chances are to win this particular case (no permit!) if I appeal? If my changes are 50/50 or below, I will pay it and leave this behind me. 

Keen to hear your advice.

Many thanks in advance.

Umkomaas

I feel I don't have a leg to stand on if it comes to writing a POPLA appeal and fighting this looks like a long winded and hard and painful road - just reading the threads wore me out.

You haven't given the full name of the PPC, but from what information you have, I think this is an IPC AOS member, so POPLA isn't open to you. 

None of this is simple, it will involve work. You need to check out threads involving 'Permit Only' cases, because Permit Only car parks cannot offer a contract to park, but you're going to have to do the legwork to understand it. 

However, if you're definitely not up for that, we can't force you down a road you don't want to go down. If your conscience allows you to pay them off, in order to fund them to continue their pursuit of others not able to afford to do likewise, then of course, that is entirely your decision. 

Help is here at the margins to assist you through this. But it's your choice/decision. 

nicky_boo

Thanks for your response Umkomaas.

I read so many threads here - been here for hours before writing my post - and searched on "permit" as well  and read many posts. I don't want to give up but I am so disheartened after all my reading. Everybody in a similar permit situation has a valid-ish excuse. I think I need some encouragement and to understand if I have a chance to win.

Apologies, I entered the PPC name by editing the post straight after, possibly whilst you were responding to it. It is UKPS. It is the one with red writing in a black frame, looking like a rugby ball. I didn't realise POPLA wasn't open to all?

A friend told me she got the same from them 4 years ago for parking in the same car park. She ignored it and it went away. I would have been tempted to do the same if I hadn't read the posts.

I am not saying I am not up for work but it is understanding if I can beat them. I don't want to fight a losing battle if this looks likely to be the case. Just need advice from the experts. I am sure others will benefit from it too.

Hope this clarifies my intention.

Kind Regards,
nicky_boo

Coupon-mad

IPC operator then:

https://www.theukps.com/privacy

Read the NEWBIES thread to understand the difference and that IPC firms don't offer POPLA.   What you describe is fly parking.  Never park like that, you do NOT need a car park to park a car.  Use the street or a side street, never a private car park of a place you are not using/is closed.

You can't appeal that the 'penalty is far too harsh' because that's not a defence or appeal point.

Not all cases go to court, no.  But they have 6 years.

nicky_boo

Thanks Coupon-mad. I didn't know the term 'fly parking''. Now that I know it, I understand this company will not leave me alone and if this keeps going, this may cost me even more money.

Please correct me if I got this wrong because somebody else may read this thread in the future and decide their actions based on what is discussed here.

I surely learnt my lesson. No fly parking otherwise there will be a lot of hassle with a good chance of the driver paying up in the end.

Umkomaas

I don't recognise UKPS as being particularly litigious, so you could take your chance on ignoring them and seeing if they do go the full way. With the famine caused to PPCs' bottom line by covid, they are using the courts more than ever as quasi debt collection agents. Many put you through all the hoops, forcing you to defend fully (or lose by default) then discontinuing last minute. 

As @Coupon-mad says, they have 6 years to pursue a court claim, and you'll know nothing about it until you receive a Letter of Claim through your letterbox, which might come next week, or at any time through to 2027.  You're even more vulnerable to a default if you move home in that time and fail to keep the PPC aware of the move urgently. 

I'm trying to point out the options in as small a nutshell as I can, this is winnable with research, work, forum help and not blinking first. 

Egbert_Nobacon

Just to give you some encouragement.
The alleged debt at the moment is £100, if you go to court and lose the likely cost £175 to £200.
Even if you were to lose you would have the satisfaction of knowing it had cost the parking company money to bring the court case.
If you win there is the chance of claiming up to £95 for your costs.
Court is quite an experience and walking out after winning is a great feeling.

D_P_Dance

IMO, your chances of winning an appeal are very slim indeed.  

nicky_boo

Thank you for the replies. In this case, there is no point of appealing using any template, right? If I just ignore the letter, they may or may not take me to court. Umkomaas says they are not particularly litigatious.

Does me receiving an LBC and MCOL cost  UKPS any money?

Umkomaas

Does me receiving an LBC and MCOL cost  UKPS any money?

Depends how far they go. Potentially £25 filing fee, £50 legal fee for filing the papers, £25 hearing fee (all of which you would need to pay if you lost). On top of that there might be additional costs if they used solicitors (like Gladstones, BW Legal, DCB Legal) to prepare a Witness Statement and evidence and if they use a freelance advocate to represent them at court, that might cost them ~£120.

Just to make it clear, the only costs you'd be exposed to (unless you behave like a complete a*se in dealing with the court, then you could cop for the lot) are the first 4. With a £100 parking charge and up to £100 court costs, it's a max of £200. 

If you win, none of the costs, and maybe you'd get a contribution towards the cost of you taking half a day off work to attend the hearing - up to £95. 

So while you have a bit to think about in what this might cost you if you lost, the PPC has more to think about in terms of what an unsuccessful pursuit of you to court might cost them!

Ralph-y

"there is no point of appealing using any template, right? "

no ... it shows them that you are receiving the best advice that you can get .... they hate this forum

"Does me receiving an LBC and MCOL cost  UKPS any money?"

Yes

where is the said car park ? and who owns it ?

a well crafted email to cancel may well work with the land owners .... post covid .... children desperate to play out ...  mother needs a break ....

SOME IDEAS ON DETERMINING WHO OWNS THE LAND

1. Google searches
2. If a retail park, check on any signage which lists the on-site outlets
3. Ask retailers on the site if there is a managing agent
4. Ask retailers on the site to whom do they pay rent
5. Contact the local authority and ask who pays the non-domestic/business rate for the car park (some councils have a spreadsheet on their website)
6. Contact the local Valuation Office and ask if they know. They often have a website which might provide the information
7. Contact The Land Registry and for around £3 they should be able to provide definitive detail
8. Give us the name of the car park, we may have seen other cases there.

Ralph