Multiple PCNs received on own parking space (Residential Property)

footsteps11

Hello all,

I am a resident, owner of a flat that comes with an underground parking space of my own (ie there's an allocated number)

Back in early March, I received 3 PCNs (25Feb, 01Mar, 02Mar) on my car windshield along with a notice (15Feb) from management saying my car is parked n a non-designated parking space and car parked illegally will get a penalty charge issued by an independent parking warden. I hadn't noticed them after months of being away/not used the car, till I returned 03Mar.

I obviously escalated to the building management rightaway (in person and via emails) to get these cancelled/rectified but not heard back.

What adds to my "issue" is, I have a corporate car (company leased it via a car lease company).

Last week, I received 3 emails from the car lease company about 3 PCNs (19Feb* note this one I've not seen a ticket on my windshield, 01Mar, 02Mar) and they have paid these AND admin fees. Having spoken to them on the phone, they advise to call up P4Parking (the PCN issuer), which I have already done but due to the ongoing COVID19 pandemic, the phone line is closed and there's no one I could speak to.
I then was advised to call up TNC (debt collectors), and was told that I have EIGHT PCNs (19, 21, 22, 23, 25Feb, 01, 02 and 25 Mar) in total. Not a pleasant call obviously as the guy on the line was adamant I settle the payment right there and then on the phone or if "I would like to be taken to court" (!?!?). I did say I've appealed and not heard back so just following up and "as far a he's concern, it is not his business".

Anyway, the car lease company then proceeded sending me photos of said offences with photos as evidence that the PCNs were on my windshields.
Note: You can't even tell if there are 1 or 2 or 3 or x amount of PCNs.

I have now emailed all parties (p4parking, car lease company, building management) my appeal to all 8 PCNs that I found out yesterday.
Note: I still don't have 4 of the PCNs (be it documents or ticket, just a reference number and photos of my car/parking space)

I couldn't use the p4parking online appeal portal as it has lapsed 28 days or because the PCNs are paid.
I tried getting hold of my fleet manager (the company I work for) to get the car lease company to stop any further payments and was told that it's not possible but I just have to appeal.

Apologies for my lengthy message but 8 PCNs is alot of money and I'm quite sure this will come out of my pay next month as it's corporate car that I have.

So I was wondering if anyone has any other advice or do I just sit and wait for a response?

Many thanks.

Half_way

what does your lease/rental etc say about parking, we need to know the exact wording that gives you the right to park there.
You should also make it clear that a permit had only been displayed as a courtesy (this may/can be important) when dealing with the parting company and the management company

Fruitcake

What does your residential lease say about parking, parking permits, parking charges, unregulated parking companies, and court claims? What it doesn't say is just as important. You may be in a position to make a court claim against whoever employed the parking scammers because they are jointly liable for the actions of their agents.

Have a look at Section 37 of the Landlord and Tenant Act with regards to the ballot requirements that must be carried out before a lease can be varied.

What does the car lease say about parking charges from unregulated private parking companies? Most companies have a clause about penalties, fines, and charges issued by an authority, but private scamvoices are none of these things.
If parking invoices from unregulated companies are not covered by the lease, then your money has been unlawfully taken. Irrespective of this, your employer needs to be involved.

Lease companies should never pay these and pass on the charge, especially if they are members of the BVRLA. By paying them they have also denied you the right to appeal, and the right to a second stage independent appeal which is your right in accordance with the Alternative Dispute Resolution Act.

The parking company won't care or do anything because they have been paid. They are not interested in anything else.

You should be making a two fold attack. One on the managing agents where you live, and one against the car lease company. Go in hard. If you have a union rep, get them involved as well.

Get your MP involved.

Move home. I am serious. Nobody should live in a place that is infested by parking scammers.

Half_way

I would be looking at reclaiming your costs and expenses from the management company.

and if the parking charge notices were not compliant with POFA then the lease company should not have passed your data on as three was no keeper liability so they could be a GDPR breach at the lease company

Fruitcake

Half_way said:

I would be looking at reclaiming your costs and expenses from the management company.

and if the parking charge notices were not compliant with POFA then the lease company should not have passed your data on as three was no keeper liability so they could be a GDPR breach at the lease company

All the lease company had to do was name you or your employer as the hirer/lessee to absolve themselves of liability. The hirer/lessee would then have made an appeal and would have won because parking scammers seem to be genetically incapable of following the correct procedure to hold a hirer/lessee liable.

Half_way

As mentioned, the lease is absolutely critical here

footsteps11

I have a lease for the property and a separate lease for the parking space, both registered under my name.
I've gone through the 34 page document of the parking space lease - it speaks of
"The Premises" - 1. Parking Space xxx in Car Park (being the Car Park defined in the particulars to this Lease) shown edged in red on Plan 2.
"Rights granted" - 2. A right to use the surface of the parking space beneath the Premises for parking in accordance with the provisions of this Lease
Also on service charges, insurance etc etc.

I did more search and found the below snippet from a Lease Guide distributed via email from Building Management a few years ago - a guide to "clarify the lease covenants or conditions that are part of your lease or tenancy agreement"




When I spoke to the team at front desk (ie they handle general parcel deliveries, security etc), they indicated I might have an incorrect permit sticker.

The PCNs I received indicates Contravention: Obscured Permit.

I'm not quite sure what they determine as valid or invalid, the permit was transferred to me and I've had it for 9 years so surely it's not taken this long to say I have an invalid permit??

The car lease company (L3asePl4n) indicated the below:

We have paid this notification for one of the following reasons:

 o      Legislation requires immediate payment by the registered keeper.

o      We have been instructed to pay on your behalf by your employer.

o      The offence has been escalated back to LeasePlan.

o      We are unable to transfer liability.

footsteps11

So yes, definitely following-up with the building managing agent (who's supposedly will be on site next week)

Half_way

It would appear there are two documents, the key one being the 34 page document, as this grants you rights and tell you what you have

 the other is just "guidance"  which is just that.

 I would await for a few others to chime in, but my understanding is the 34 page document has primacy over anything  else.

 You say the guidance was issued a few years back - what came first the 34 page document or the "guidance" ?

Coupon-mad

This is a lesson in always responding to windscreen PCNs if you have a leased car.  The scumbag parking firm would never have been able to apply to the DVLA a month later, had you appealed to the PCNs as driver.  Now you are in a nightmare situation and can't appeal to the rogue ex-clamper firm that the Managing Agents decided to inflict on you all, completely unnecessarily, given you have a right to the space.

Your options are going to involve having to put huge pressure on the Managing Agents to get the PCNs refunded because you've done nothing wrong, and suing them and the parking firm if they don't cancel them and cease harassing you.

And putting pressure on the lease firm, and probably (on your card) charging back the money they pointlessly paid to a scum firm.

All this could have been avoided by responding to the PCNs and not just expecting the MA to sort it.

Half_way

Your options are going to involve having to put huge pressure on the Managing Agents to get the PCNs refunded because you've done nothing wrong, and suing them and the parking firm if they don't cancel them and cease harassing you.

And putting pressure on the lease firm, and probably (on your card) charging back the money they pointlessly paid to a scum firm.

My understanding is that this isnt as straight forwards as it should be :

 The parking charges and admin fees look like they will be deducted from the OPs pay packet

The lease company has paid the parking charge notices and it looks like they have charged the employer

it is still not clear if the original parking charges comply with the protection of freedoms act, if they did not and the OPs personal data was passed on to the employer then there could be issues here which could benefit the OP

The lease document ( referred to as 34 pages) looks like its the key document, and the guidance was issued subsequently or possibly some time afterwards - this could be of significance likewise f the 34-page document references the guidance or does not reference it

If it was me i would be looking to make sure everything is lined up nicely - assuming all is clear then i would be looking at the management company to refund all parking charge notices, and any additional costs and expenses and then telling them to stick their permits where the sun doesn't shine