*UPDATED* Witness Statement now added!

nicestrawb

Yes he is lying to you, or is misinformed. Or he doesn't want to because he will be charged himself for requesting them to cancel it...

nicestrawb

 Also told me they did have additional signage at one point but were made to take it down by the councils planning dept - he declined to confirm that statement in writing for me however. 

You don't need him to. If it's true there is nothing to stop you leaving them a review, naming him personally and saying he told you this... or from claiming it in a witness statement etc...

is the site visible on google street view?...

If it were me though, all of the above would tell me that there would be mileage in aggressively going after the land owner. Same happened to me, guy was very friendly but couldn't be bothered until I implicated him and his company in the scam... ticket was cancelled within 3 days.

Fruitcake

If the letter you have is a court claim from MCOL, the court clearing house in Northampton, you need to set up a government gateway and do the AoS. The guide to court tells you when to do this (after day 5) to get you 28 days to submit a defence.

You need to get on and do the AoS because if you don't then the scammers may get a default judgment against you.
You then need to submit a defence by day 33 (as long as you did the AoS by day 14 (plus 5 days for service of the claim by post).

Most of the main points of the defence are done for you in the template. You just need to amend paragraphs 2 and 3 of the template and post them here.

Para 2 is normally admitting to being the keeper but denying liability. If the keeper wasn't driving and the NTK was not PoFA compliant then the keeper also states that they were not the driver ... and liability is denied.

Para 3 is then about the alleged parking event, the type of car park, and why the defendant is not liable. Pick any of the following that are true, or any other points you can think of.

There were no signs.
Signs were inadequate, illegible, too high, not seen, damaged, forbidding therefore incapable of forming a contract with a driver, unlit (if at night), tiny writing, Ts and Cs buried in tiny font, charge not visible/in smaller print than rest of sign.
(If pay and display) A ticket was purchased and displayed, no ticket could be purchased because the machine failed, photos of windscreen taken from unusual angle to hide the fact a ticket was displayed, ticket fluttered and turned over.

Driver was delayed due to driving round looking for a space, or trying to leave when busy.

Non PofA compliant NTK incapable of making the keeper liable

etcetera.

Look at other threads that are at court claim stage. There are many to choose from.

Post just the paragraphs you have amended for checking, but do the AoS first, after day 5.

Anonymouskeith

Fruitcake said:

If the letter you have is a court claim from MCOL, the court clearing house in Manchester, you need to set up a government gateway and do the AoS. The guide to court tells you when to do this (after day 5) to get you 28 days to submit a defence.

You need to get on and do the AoS because if you don't then the scammers may get a default judgment against you.
You then need to submit a defence by day 33 (as long as you did the AoS by day 14 (plus 5 days for service of the claim by post).

Most of the main points of the defence are done for you in the template. You just need to amend paragraphs 2 and 3 of the template and post them here.

Para 2 is normally admitting to being the keeper but denying liability. If the keeper wasn't driving and the NTK was not PoFA compliant then the keeper also states that they were not the driver ... and liability is denied.

Para 3 is then about the alleged parking event, the type of car park, and why the defendant is not liable. Pick any of the following that are true, or any other points you can think of.

There were no signs.
Signs were inadequate, illegible, too high, not seen, damaged, forbidding therefore incapable of forming a contract with a driver, unlit (if at night), tiny writing, Ts and Cs buried in tiny font, charge not visible/in smaller print than rest of sign.
(If pay and display) A ticket was purchased and displayed, no ticket could be purchased because the machine failed, photos of windscreen taken from unusual angle to hide the fact a ticket was displayed, ticket fluttered and turned over.

Driver was delayed due to driving round looking for a space, or trying to leave when busy.

Non PofA compliant NTK incapable of making the keeper liable

etcetera.

Look at other threads that are at court claim stage. There are many to choose from.

Post just the paragraphs you have amended for checking, but do the AoS first, after day 5.

You’ve been immensely helpful so far. Thanks so much for your time in helping me. Determined to beat these ****s

Le_Kirk

Anonymouskeith said:

Le_Kirk said:

Anonymouskeith said:

Long story short, I received a PCN over 12 months ago, ignored everything until now (a method that has always worked for me prior), I've now received a court letter - unsure of the proper nomenclature but I'm sure people will know what I mean - stating I have 14 days to respond or court could rule in default against me etc. I absolutely do not want to give these !!!!!! a penny of my cash and from what I understand I've little more to lose financially by preparing a defence & fighting the claim (is this correct?)

This is the part I'd appreciate a little help with, I've read the FAQ but the only advice it gives is to seek out advice from others than have recently contested in court - does anybody have a template defence or similar? Or can advise on the best approach to it? TIA

The only advice isn't to seek out advice from others; there are four posts concerning all stages of the process from initial "Complain to Landowner - Plan A" through to initial appeal, POPLA and small claims court hearing.  About the same place as you found the FAQ or NEWBIE sticky is the defence template that you seek.

The issue with that template I’m having is it sort of leaves out the core part of what my actually defence should be. I know every case is different, but I don’t know what I actually ought to be looking for to say ‘well I shouldn’t have to pay because x & y wasn’t done’ if that makes sense 

It's actually the other way round and the core of the defence is there.  It just needs you to adjust two paragraphs (2 & 3).  We don't know the circumstances surrounding the parking issue and, as you say, every case is different.  All you have stated is that you received a PCN 12 months ago and ignored it.  No details of the type of car park - was it permit, pay & display, supermarket, pub, residential etc.  Did you fail to display a permit, did you fail to pay and display, is it where you live and you have primacy of contract?  You have to look at the particulars of claim and then counter what it claims there.

Anonymouskeith

Le_Kirk said:

Anonymouskeith said:

Le_Kirk said:

Anonymouskeith said:

Long story short, I received a PCN over 12 months ago, ignored everything until now (a method that has always worked for me prior), I've now received a court letter - unsure of the proper nomenclature but I'm sure people will know what I mean - stating I have 14 days to respond or court could rule in default against me etc. I absolutely do not want to give these !!!!!! a penny of my cash and from what I understand I've little more to lose financially by preparing a defence & fighting the claim (is this correct?)

This is the part I'd appreciate a little help with, I've read the FAQ but the only advice it gives is to seek out advice from others than have recently contested in court - does anybody have a template defence or similar? Or can advise on the best approach to it? TIA

The only advice isn't to seek out advice from others; there are four posts concerning all stages of the process from initial "Complain to Landowner - Plan A" through to initial appeal, POPLA and small claims court hearing.  About the same place as you found the FAQ or NEWBIE sticky is the defence template that you seek.

The issue with that template I’m having is it sort of leaves out the core part of what my actually defence should be. I know every case is different, but I don’t know what I actually ought to be looking for to say ‘well I shouldn’t have to pay because x & y wasn’t done’ if that makes sense 

It's actually the other way round and the core of the defence is there.  It just needs you to adjust two paragraphs (2 & 3).  We don't know the circumstances surrounding the parking issue and, as you say, every case is different.  All you have stated is that you received a PCN 12 months ago and ignored it.  No details of the type of car park - was it permit, pay & display, supermarket, pub, residential etc.  Did you fail to display a permit, did you fail to pay and display, is it where you live and you have primacy of contract?  You have to look at the particulars of claim and then counter what it claims there.

Fair point - it was a pay and display with ANPR cameras. I’m guessing the best line of defence will be to take the line of poor signage etc (it genuinely isn’t very good - take a look at this on google street view https://www.google.com/maps/@53.1628126,-1.590676,3a,75y/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1st9Ol7ae6WFTq5kvlJSGJ9w!2e0 - absolutely no indication of the requirement to pay at the entrance. 

What I really could do with - is there any piece of legislation or guidance that dictates what is and isn’t acceptable signage in these scenarios?

nicestrawb

Not really, hence why so many of these end up in court. There may be some other reference cases that others can point to though.

Google street view doesn't show very much though. I'd recommend getting down there and getting some decent shots that show the carpark, entrance etc and demonstrate why, when you parked in the particular place you parked, the signage was not visible or clear. Was it daytime?

Coupon-mad

 He seems genuine enough and even went as far as to say they will not be renewing their relationship with said company because of the damage they have done to their reputation etc.

That is brilliant news and later in your witness statement you should mention this conversation with the landowner.

The template defence already covers unclear signs in the wording I've written for everyone.  Your point #2 and #3 is setting the scene, the facts about the car park and what happened, if the Defendant knows (not all people know because they might not know about the PCN nor ever have been to the car park).  Your point #3 is not necessarily additional stuff about unclear signs unless you have something specific you want to say about that.
  

What I really could do with - is there any piece of legislation or guidance that dictates what is and isn’t acceptable signage in these scenarios?

No. 

There is obviously the Code of Practice of the Trade Body but it's not regulation.  However, entrance signs are mandatory in both Codes (BPA and IPC).

Anonymouskeith

nicestrawb said:

Not really, hence why so many of these end up in court. There may be some other reference cases that others can point to though.

Google street view doesn't show very much though. I'd recommend getting down there and getting some decent shots that show the carpark, entrance etc and demonstrate why, when you parked in the particular place you parked, the signage was not visible or clear. Was it daytime?

Yeah that’s the plan one day in the next week. Going to submit my sar this weekend, and write to the landowner making a formal request for them to ask for the claim withdrawn but suspect I’ll not get very far going down that avenue from the convo I had earlier. I’m quietly confident-ish. 

Anonymouskeith

Coupon-mad said:

 He seems genuine enough and even went as far as to say they will not be renewing their relationship with said company because of the damage they have done to their reputation etc.

That is brilliant news and later in your witness statement you should mention this conversation with the landowner.

The template defence already covers unclear signs in the wording I've written for everyone.  Your point #2 and #3 is setting the scene, the facts about the car park and what happened, if the Defendant knows (not all people know because they might not know about the PCN nor ever have been to the car park).  Your point #3 is not necessarily additional stuff about unclear signs unless you have something specific you want to say about that.
  

What I really could do with - is there any piece of legislation or guidance that dictates what is and isn’t acceptable signage in these scenarios?

No. 

There is obviously the Code of Practice of the Trade Body but it's not regulation.  However, entrance signs are mandatory in both Codes (BPA and IPC).

That’s brilliant, thanks a lot. I don’t know if the google street view link I posted works for others, but there are clearly no entrance signs regarding parking. How would one go about submitting photos as part of their defence statement? Put them in an appendix and reference it?