Party Wall - astride boundary - what's possible with an Award?

riderjules

Hello,

I'm hoping someone can give me a second opinion. 

We are planning an extension on a terrace property and have a few considerations.

Left side

• On the left side, our neighbour previously already build astride/on the boundary and erected a party wall. We are planning to use this wall of course, but also intend to add a small additional length to the wall (50cm). My understanding is they can dissent, but this doesn't mean we can't build the additional length, just that a Party Wall Award would need to be created with surveyors ahead of us doing so. Is this correct, or can they truly refuse and say we can't do that? 

Right side

• On the right side, there is currently no party wall as there are no existing extensions built on the boundary from us or our neighbour. We are hoping to build astride/on the boundary. Again, my understanding is they can dissent, but this doesn't mean we can't do it - just that we need to issue Party Wall Notices and then obtain a Party Wall Award via surveyors. Is this correct? Or can they truly refuse and then we cannot build astride the boundary?
• And finally, if we decided not to build astride the boundary on the right side, and only wanted to build up to the boundary, wholly on our land, in this case, a Party Wall Award would not be required. Is this correct? Our surveyors are saying there would still be an Award needed in this case, which I don't think is correct. If we were to do this, then we wouldn't be building or digging new foundations 3m horizontally from their existing structure. 

Thanks!

Rdwill

Hi

I consider myself to be up on the Party Wall Act considering my recent battles over a Party Wall Award.

However, I'm not sure I entirely understand your situation.

You say that you live in a terrace house, ok, so I assume there are Party Walls running down the sides of the existing house. But then you say that you want to build an extension, so I assume to the rear of your terrace house. But then you say that you will not be digging new foundations within 3m of their existing structure.

I suppose you may have a really wide terrace house, but a couple of photos for context would help.

Kind Regards

riderjules

Hi @Rdwill you are correct, apologies, it's a rear extension we are planning. The rest of the house already has party walls.  I've attached images below of both existing and proposed.

Regarding the 3m rule - I believe this only applies if you are building new foundation 3m HORIZONTALLY from their existing structure. Because our new extension will not be 3m horizontally with their structure, I don't believe this applies?

Regarding the extra 50cm we are wanting to build onto the existing Left neighbour party wall -  the reason for this is that we only have the ground floor flat, not the whole house. So the small amount of extra space is worth a lot to us. 

Ectophile

The walls you want to build are not just within 3m of the existing ones, but they are right next to them.  I'm not sure how you think the 3m rule doesn't apply.

riderjules

@Ectophile we are not  planning to build any new walls HORIZONTALLY within 3m, which is what I thought the 3m rule applies to? Horiztonally, not diagonally

ciderboy2009

riderjules said:

@Ectophile we are not  planning to build any new walls HORIZONTALLY within 3m, which is what I thought the 3m rule applies to? Horiztonally, not diagonally

I think you need to look up the definition of horizontal.  Try thinking of the drawings as 3D rather than 2D. 

Rdwill

Loads of Party Wall stuff in there sorry, I think you hit all three sections 1,2 and 6 on both sides.

Section 1 - New Walls at the Boundary

That is building up to or astride the boundary, you can only build astride the boundary with the express permission of the neighbour. You are taking some of their land to form your Party Structure. You could negate the need for section one by building an inch inside the boundary line, but that would reduce the sixe of your extension.


Section 2 – Work Affecting Existing Party Structures (and adjoining owners’ walls at the boundary)

Party structures are structures that divide the properties of different owners and include party walls. You will want to be tying in to or using the existing Party Wall structures on both sides to create both your walls.

Section 6 – Excavation Close to a Shared or Adjoining Structure

Your work includes foundations within 3m of a shared or adjoining structure so it will fall under Section 6 of the Act. Even if you discount the Party Wall as you have done the neighbours back walls count as part of their structure.

Sorry to be the bearer, but everything you want to do is riddled with Party Wall in my opinion.

If you do decide to continue, (and next time I'm moving) prepare to enter the beating that is the Party Wall Act.

I am biased, through bad experience, but basically you pay your neighbours to hire some henchmen to come round and give you a kick in, not fun.

Good Luck!!

riderjules

@Rdwill Thank you. We have already engaged Party Wall Surveyors and they have sent notices to the neighbours, but I wanted to understand, can either neighbour fully refuse, stopping us from building astride the boundary. Or if they dissent, is it up to the surveyors to make a judgment and allow us to build astride the boundary, as long as no valid reason for not doing so?

Rdwill

My understanding is that they can fully refuse you building astride the boundary, you want to take some of their garden and turn it into a wall.

They may agree if they have plans to extend south at a later date and will want to use the structure you have built. Other wise you will have to build up to the Boundary line (still needs section 1) and they will have to build up to the boundary line. Which is silly as wall will be twice as thick as it needs to be.

Rdwill

One further comment, do you have a shared  garden wall and want to re-build it as a party wall which is a right provided by section 2(2)(l) of the Act

(l) to raise a party fence wall, or to raise such a wall for use as a party wall, and to demolish a party fence wall and rebuild it as a party fence wall or as a party wall;

edgex

Is that extra 50cm an external measurement? If so, you'll be getting less than 20cm extra on the internal dimension once the wall is built.
Is that length for a specific/fixed reason?