Unsubstantiated Outstanding Care Home Fees after death

magical1963

Hi, I am looking for some advice in relation to the recent passing of my mother.

My mother had been a resident of a care home where the family had understood that the local authority were funding her residence at 100%.

After her passing the local authority made contact with me to advise that there was a debt outstanding at the care home and that my mother had been expected to contribute following a financial assessment.  The local authority wouldn't share any information with me but said the care home would be in touch.

The care home wrote to me with an invoice for approximately 15% of her care costs over a 15 month period.

There was no contract or agreement in place between my mother and the care home.  The care home advise that the local authority did have an agreement in place but do not have any copies.  The local authority won't release anything to me without subject access etc etc.  I suspect there isn't any documented agreement.

It has been explained to me that the reason for the arrears was that bank mandates had been rejected due to a signature issue, and that my mother was unable to visit a branch to validate the payments.

I want to resolve the issue with the care home, if there are genuine arrears I would like to pay them from her estate but at the moment I have no documentation to support their validity.

What else can I do?  Any experience with a situation such as this?

Thank you

Mark

Keep_pedalling

Local authorities do not cover the fees 100%. The majority of her income should have been used to pay her contribution. She would have a Personal Expenses Allowance of £24.90 a week, any income above that pays for her care..

magical1963

Okay - I wasn't arguing that the contribution should be 100%, I was just relaying what my mother told the family.  

Is it reasonable for the care home to issue an invoice for a weekly amount (over 15 months) without any written contract or agreement?

The local authority could help the care home by providing documentation but are unwilling to do so.

Keep_pedalling

My experience with my mother was that the LA paid the care home and as my mother’s POA I then paid her contribution to the LA, but I think different LAs have different procedures.

Your mother must have had a financial assessment before she was allocated to the home, and the contract would have been via the LA. She obviously needed the service and she received it, so I don’t think you can avoid having to pay it. 

Mojisola

It's a debt against the estate and will need to be paid but, as executors/administrators, you do need some documentation to prove the amount of the debt.

xylophone

You are the executor of your mother's estate?

The estate is being asked to pay an invoice.

Surely you have the right to an itemised bill showing how and when the arrears arose?

mrschaucer

xylophone said:

You are the executor of your mother's estate?

The estate is being asked to pay an invoice.

Surely you have the right to an itemised bill showing how and when the arrears arose?

And surely you have a legal DUTY to the beneficiaries as executor to check the validity of any debt against the estate before you pay it out?

magical1963

Yes that's exactly what I would expect.  It's surely incumbent on me to ensure that the claim is accurate.  It feels like the LA are leaving the care home in a difficult position, a balance due but without any supporting documents to demonstrate validity of the debt.

I want to clear any outstanding debt but equally need to ensure that I don't overpay or worse underpay and become liable personally in the future.

Not sure where to go next for advice.  In the meantime I have suggested that the care home pursue the LA directly for documentation to support the invoice being presented.

I think it's further complicated (at the LA/Care Home) because the care home was out of the LA's area - neighbouring county and as such wasn't a typical arrangement I don't expect.

theoretica

magical1963 said:

Yes that's exactly what I would expect.  It's surely incumbent on me to ensure that the claim is accurate.  It feels like the LA are leaving the care home in a difficult position, a balance due but without any supporting documents to demonstrate validity of the debt.

Purely from the care home point of view they can provide documentation of cost £1000, paid £850 remaining debt £150 - that establishes the debt exists (reinforced if you insist by their fee structure/itemisation).  Your question seems not to be does the debt to the care home exist, but why didn't the LA pay more - perhaps with a side order of why didn't the care home sort out her paying her share ages back. 

naedanger

Can you check what the care home are telling you against bank records? Were amounts being paid to the care home, did they stop and is the claim roughly equal to the amounts being paid times the number of months since they stopped? If so and the home provide an accurate bill showing how they have arrived at the figure they are claiming then I would have thought that would be sufficient to accept the claim as legitimate.

magical1963

My mother was at the care home for 15 months before passing.  She never paid anything to the care home according to her bank records.  

The care home have said they received X per week from the LA leaving a balance of Y from my mother.

Without validation from the LA it's impossible to verify that the care home invoice is indeed accurate.

I would have expected it to be in the care homes interest to gather documentation from the LA to support their claim for the outstanding balance.