Vaccine Passports

sheramber

All will be revealed when decisions have been made.

There is no  point in being concerned about something that might never happen.

Our Government cannot control what other countries decide just as other countries cannot control what we do.

It is all open for discussion.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/26/eu-vaccinated-americans-holiday-europe-summer-ursula-von-der-leyen-non-essential-travel



 A spokesperson for the European commission said that while discussions had been held with US officials and the secretary of homeland security, Alejandro Mayorkas, there were “no contacts at present with the UK”.

Boris Johnson has said he wants to allow foreign travel by 17 May and the government is considering introducing vaccine passports for British holidaymakers in line with that target.

But a commission spokesperson said talks had not yet opened between Brussels and London on how to ensure mutual recognition of either side’s documents proving vaccination or a recent negative coronavirus test.

It is understood technical talks are under way with individual EU member states such as Greece. A UK government spokesperson did not respond to a request for comment.

mattyprice4004

sassy-one said:

Thanks for all the replies!

I'm a little concerned if I am honest, that those who for whatever reason at all, who don't have the vaccine will be singled out and could become second class in society.

I understand that they are doing it, these vaccine passports for the safety and control of the virus but they must have a back up, such as allowing someone to have a rapid test the day or so before travel, at their own expense if necessary, so they can travel.

For example, children who aren't vaccinated prior to the parents holidaying will be prevented from holidays, including babies etc.

It would, in my view be completely unjust and not ethical to only rely on one way and not allow another choice for those wishing for whatever reason, being they can't have it or don't want it, the vaccine.


I hope the government provide clear guidance soon, as I became more concerned this morning following hearing of the app NHS intend to use, yet no mention of what those who are not vaccinated will do.


Stay safe everyone!

Understandable, but then how do you differentiate between those who genuinely can’t have it, and the idiots out there that prattle on about New World Order / 5G / microchips etc?

Apart from under 16s and those with rare autoimmune conditions that mean the vaccine is dangerous, we need a ‘zero tolerance’ policy on travel without the vaccine. 

There’s really no excuse - ‘I don’t want it’ isn’t a justifiable reason and if those who resolutely refuse to have it want to limit themselves, that’s their choice. 

elsien

Some people with dementia or learning disability are declining it. It’s not always  a capacitous refusal but if someone understands enough to say “you’re not bringing that needle anywhere near me” and the level of objection is clear and unsafe then you’re in best interests/court of protection territory because you’d need to use restraint. Which is a different ballgame altogether. 

silvercar

Tedber said:

CKhalvashi said:

sheramber said:

All will be revealed when decisions have been made.

There is no  point in being concerned about something that might never happen.

Our Government cannot control what other countries decide just as other countries cannot control what we do.

It is all open for discussion.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/26/eu-vaccinated-americans-holiday-europe-summer-ursula-von-der-leyen-non-essential-travel



 A spokesperson for the European commission said that while discussions had been held with US officials and the secretary of homeland security, Alejandro Mayorkas, there were “no contacts at present with the UK”.

Boris Johnson has said he wants to allow foreign travel by 17 May and the government is considering introducing vaccine passports for British holidaymakers in line with that target.

But a commission spokesperson said talks had not yet opened between Brussels and London on how to ensure mutual recognition of either side’s documents proving vaccination or a recent negative coronavirus test.

It is understood technical talks are under way with individual EU member states such as Greece. A UK government spokesperson did not respond to a request for comment.

If someone doesn't want it, this is their choice, but this is their responsibility to meet any additional requirements that a country may bring.

My home country as an example requires either full vaccination 14 days before (meaning second dose), or 2 PCR tests. If someone wishes to submit to these additional requirements, this is their choice, and should be at their expense. That country's healthcare system shouldn't be expected to subsidise those who refuse a vaccine. That is a national decision, and not an international one.

On the other hand for those with a genuine medical need, I have a little more sympathy.

This will be a country by country decision and up to the respective governments, and Johnson and cronies shouldn't be able to bully other countries into submitting to his demands, as much as they may like to think they have a power to decide.

I know this is slightly off topic but does anyone know what actual medical conditions prevent vaccination?  I know people with diabetes, heart problems, COPD, autism, Alzheimer’s ALL of whom have had vaccinations.  I also know TWO people who flatly refuse to be vaccinated because “they don’t believe in it”.   

For me I would support a ban on people traveling who haven’t been vaccinated (excluding young children) for the considerable future at least.  Still a lot to learn about it though.  

They will be a few people with a handful of medical conditions that mean they can’t be vaccinated eg a blood clotting disorder would currently rule out AZ, combine that with an extreme allergic reaction to one of the Pfizer ingredients and it would probably rule out a vaccine at the moment.

There are also people whose immune system is completely shot, so a vaccine won’t work.

Then there are others in the middle of a course of treatment eg some chemotherapies, who can’t be vaccinated mid treatment.

Sokrates5

Both the UK and the EU plan a similar app that saves information on whether you're fully vaccinated, have a negative PCR test, or antibodies as you're recovering from COVID. The idea was discussed in the EU parliament yesterday. We'll learn more details soon.

CKhalvashi

Tedber said:

CKhalvashi said:

sheramber said:

All will be revealed when decisions have been made.

There is no  point in being concerned about something that might never happen.

Our Government cannot control what other countries decide just as other countries cannot control what we do.

It is all open for discussion.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/26/eu-vaccinated-americans-holiday-europe-summer-ursula-von-der-leyen-non-essential-travel



 A spokesperson for the European commission said that while discussions had been held with US officials and the secretary of homeland security, Alejandro Mayorkas, there were “no contacts at present with the UK”.

Boris Johnson has said he wants to allow foreign travel by 17 May and the government is considering introducing vaccine passports for British holidaymakers in line with that target.

But a commission spokesperson said talks had not yet opened between Brussels and London on how to ensure mutual recognition of either side’s documents proving vaccination or a recent negative coronavirus test.

It is understood technical talks are under way with individual EU member states such as Greece. A UK government spokesperson did not respond to a request for comment.

If someone doesn't want it, this is their choice, but this is their responsibility to meet any additional requirements that a country may bring.

My home country as an example requires either full vaccination 14 days before (meaning second dose), or 2 PCR tests. If someone wishes to submit to these additional requirements, this is their choice, and should be at their expense. That country's healthcare system shouldn't be expected to subsidise those who refuse a vaccine. That is a national decision, and not an international one.

On the other hand for those with a genuine medical need, I have a little more sympathy.

This will be a country by country decision and up to the respective governments, and Johnson and cronies shouldn't be able to bully other countries into submitting to his demands, as much as they may like to think they have a power to decide.

I know this is slightly off topic but does anyone know what actual medical conditions prevent vaccination?  I know people with diabetes, heart problems, COPD, autism, Alzheimer’s ALL of whom have had vaccinations.  I also know TWO people who flatly refuse to be vaccinated because “they don’t believe in it”.   

For me I would support a ban on people traveling who haven’t been vaccinated (excluding young children) for the considerable future at least.  Still a lot to learn about it though.  

I'm also not sure, but am meeting someone for lunch today who I'm sure will know, so will ask. I believe it's something to do with allergies/some medications.

I personally absolutely hate needles/injections, but am more than happy to have a vaccine as I feel a moral responsibility to protect anyone I may come into contact with, and there is no medical reason why I personally can't have it.

CKhalvashi

CKhalvashi said:

Tedber said:

CKhalvashi said:

sheramber said:

All will be revealed when decisions have been made.

There is no  point in being concerned about something that might never happen.

Our Government cannot control what other countries decide just as other countries cannot control what we do.

It is all open for discussion.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/26/eu-vaccinated-americans-holiday-europe-summer-ursula-von-der-leyen-non-essential-travel



 A spokesperson for the European commission said that while discussions had been held with US officials and the secretary of homeland security, Alejandro Mayorkas, there were “no contacts at present with the UK”.

Boris Johnson has said he wants to allow foreign travel by 17 May and the government is considering introducing vaccine passports for British holidaymakers in line with that target.

But a commission spokesperson said talks had not yet opened between Brussels and London on how to ensure mutual recognition of either side’s documents proving vaccination or a recent negative coronavirus test.

It is understood technical talks are under way with individual EU member states such as Greece. A UK government spokesperson did not respond to a request for comment.

If someone doesn't want it, this is their choice, but this is their responsibility to meet any additional requirements that a country may bring.

My home country as an example requires either full vaccination 14 days before (meaning second dose), or 2 PCR tests. If someone wishes to submit to these additional requirements, this is their choice, and should be at their expense. That country's healthcare system shouldn't be expected to subsidise those who refuse a vaccine. That is a national decision, and not an international one.

On the other hand for those with a genuine medical need, I have a little more sympathy.

This will be a country by country decision and up to the respective governments, and Johnson and cronies shouldn't be able to bully other countries into submitting to his demands, as much as they may like to think they have a power to decide.

I know this is slightly off topic but does anyone know what actual medical conditions prevent vaccination?  I know people with diabetes, heart problems, COPD, autism, Alzheimer’s ALL of whom have had vaccinations.  I also know TWO people who flatly refuse to be vaccinated because “they don’t believe in it”.   

For me I would support a ban on people traveling who haven’t been vaccinated (excluding young children) for the considerable future at least.  Still a lot to learn about it though.  

I'm also not sure, but am meeting someone for lunch today who I'm sure will know, so will ask. I believe it's something to do with allergies/some medications.

I personally absolutely hate needles/injections, but am more than happy to have a vaccine as I feel a moral responsibility to protect anyone I may come into contact with, and there is no medical reason why I personally can't have it.

Effectively what Silver said (sorry to quote myself). Mainly due to specific allergies, specific medications and other specific ongoing medical treatments.

Thrugelmir said:

CKhalvashi said:

sheramber said:

All will be revealed when decisions have been made.

There is no  point in being concerned about something that might never happen.

Our Government cannot control what other countries decide just as other countries cannot control what we do.

It is all open for discussion.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/26/eu-vaccinated-americans-holiday-europe-summer-ursula-von-der-leyen-non-essential-travel



 A spokesperson for the European commission said that while discussions had been held with US officials and the secretary of homeland security, Alejandro Mayorkas, there were “no contacts at present with the UK”.

Boris Johnson has said he wants to allow foreign travel by 17 May and the government is considering introducing vaccine passports for British holidaymakers in line with that target.

But a commission spokesperson said talks had not yet opened between Brussels and London on how to ensure mutual recognition of either side’s documents proving vaccination or a recent negative coronavirus test.

It is understood technical talks are under way with individual EU member states such as Greece. A UK government spokesperson did not respond to a request for comment.

This will be a country by country decision and up to the respective governments, and Johnson and cronies shouldn't be able to bully other countries into submitting to his demands, as much as they may like to think they have a power to decide.

Some people just can't help themselves. At least keep to the topic and avoid writing complete irrelevant tosh. There's enough fake news on social media  without MSE becoming polluted as well. 

Completely relevant. Even the proposed red/orange/green list paired with vaccine passports will be irrelevant to an extent, as it requires a desire of another country to allow British nationals/residents to enter. Being able to return without a 10 day isolation period does not mean that entry will be granted in the first place.

It's therefore completely true that the British government has no power to decide the policies of a third country, as well as completely on topic in this particular instance. There is therefore no fake news here, just a gentle reminder to check the entry restrictions (which are subject to change) before booking anything in addition to any restrictions the UK may impose.

Kim_kim

sassy-one said:

Thanks for all the replies!

I'm a little concerned if I am honest, that those who for whatever reason at all, who don't have the vaccine will be singled out and could become second class in society.

I understand that they are doing it, these vaccine passports for the safety and control of the virus but they must have a back up, such as allowing someone to have a rapid test the day or so before travel, at their own expense if necessary, so they can travel.

For example, children who aren't vaccinated prior to the parents holidaying will be prevented from holidays, including babies etc.

It would, in my view be completely unjust and not ethical to only rely on one way and not allow another choice for those wishing for whatever reason, being they can't have it or don't want it, the vaccine.


I hope the government provide clear guidance soon, as I became more concerned this morning following hearing of the app NHS intend to use, yet no mention of what those who are not vaccinated will do.


Stay safe everyone!

No they don’t have to have a back up.
Countries are free to make their entry requirements & if they stipulate you need to have had the covid vaccine then you have two choices, have it to enter or don’t have it & don’t enter.  It’s simple really.  

od244051

What are the plans for those who don't have smartphones or have old/basic smartphones that don't support the NHS app? My mother does not have a smartphone. My father has a simple Samsung smartphone which doesn't support some apps.

People should not be forced into buying an updated smart phone to travel abroad.

elsien

od244051 said:

What are the plans for those who don't have smartphones or have old/basic smartphones that don't support the NHS app? My mother does not have a smartphone. My father has a simple Samsung smartphone which doesn't support some apps.

People should not be forced into buying an updated smart phone to travel abroad.

This has already been covered earlier in the thread.