Refunds on gigs rescheduled due to CoVid

freewilly1280

Hi all, newbie here! 

Does anyone know whether I should be refunded in full for a rescheduled gig if I can’t attend on the new date? 

I’ve had to cancel a few and only See Tickets have refunded just the face value and kept all the (many) admin charges. 

I had gig insurance so expected to receive a full refund, as I have from Ticketmaster and RAH.

See Tickets are not responding to my enquiry about the fees being taken. 

Aylesbury_Duck

I seem to recall other threads about this, and the consensus was that they're entitled to keep the fees, particularly if you agreed to await rescheduling and now cannot make the date yourself.  With hindsight, I think you'd have stood a better chance of a full refund had you demanded one when the gig was originally cancelled.  You're now in a position where it's you cancelling.

williamsl5

Aylesbury_Duck said:

I seem to recall other threads about this, and the consensus was that they're entitled to keep the fees, particularly if you agreed to await rescheduling and now cannot make the date yourself.  With hindsight, I think you'd have stood a better chance of a full refund had you demanded one when the gig was originally cancelled.  You're now in a position where it's you cancelling.

The difficulty is that the gigs aren't being cancelled - they are automatically rescheduled so you don't have the choice of accepting. And then as freewilly says if you can't make the new date, you lose the initial fees you have paid. 

I've had a similar issue and lost quite a bit on the f ees, but from what I can see online they are entitled to do so (whether moral or not)

Aylesbury_Duck

williamsl5 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

I seem to recall other threads about this, and the consensus was that they're entitled to keep the fees, particularly if you agreed to await rescheduling and now cannot make the date yourself.  With hindsight, I think you'd have stood a better chance of a full refund had you demanded one when the gig was originally cancelled.  You're now in a position where it's you cancelling.

The difficulty is that the gigs aren't being cancelled - they are automatically rescheduled so you don't have the choice of accepting. And then as freewilly says if you can't make the new date, you lose the initial fees you have paid. 

I've had a similar issue and lost quite a bit on the f ees, but from what I can see online they are entitled to do so (whether moral or not)

I would have thought that rescheduling is still a process of cancellation of an existing contract and the drawing up of a new one?  If the original date couldn't be honoured by the ticket seller, then weren't they in breach of contract?  If so, then at that point OP could have insisted on a full refund, but by implicitly agreeing to the revised contract (i.e. by not objecting at that point), they lost that opportunity.  Although they've received a refund for the face value, the admin charge has been retained because in the latest development, it's the OP breaking the contract and the ticket agency is still willing to provide the ticketing service.

I'm not legally qualified, those are just my thoughts on the process.

edgex

Aylesbury_Duck said:

williamsl5 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

I seem to recall other threads about this, and the consensus was that they're entitled to keep the fees, particularly if you agreed to await rescheduling and now cannot make the date yourself.  With hindsight, I think you'd have stood a better chance of a full refund had you demanded one when the gig was originally cancelled.  You're now in a position where it's you cancelling.

The difficulty is that the gigs aren't being cancelled - they are automatically rescheduled so you don't have the choice of accepting. And then as freewilly says if you can't make the new date, you lose the initial fees you have paid. 

I've had a similar issue and lost quite a bit on the f ees, but from what I can see online they are entitled to do so (whether moral or not)

I would have thought that rescheduling is still a process of cancellation of an existing contract and the drawing up of a new one?  If the original date couldn't be honoured by the ticket seller, then weren't they in breach of contract?  If so, then at that point OP could have insisted on a full refund, but by implicitly agreeing to the revised contract (i.e. by not objecting at that point), they lost that opportunity.  Although they've received a refund for the face value, the admin charge has been retained because in the latest development, it's the OP breaking the contract and the ticket agency is still willing to provide the ticketing service.

I'm not legally qualified, those are just my thoughts on the process.

This is an unusual situation though.
Lots of promoters have re-booked entire tours, & won't always have offered refunds at the time of the original cancellation, because they knew it was highly likely to get rescheduled.
They haven't asked people if the dates are acceptable, just said 'your tickets are now for date XYZ'

They should offer full refunds, as it's likely that individual cancellations are further in advance than usual & therefore it will be easier for them to resell the tickets.

Aylesbury_Duck

edgex said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

williamsl5 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

I seem to recall other threads about this, and the consensus was that they're entitled to keep the fees, particularly if you agreed to await rescheduling and now cannot make the date yourself.  With hindsight, I think you'd have stood a better chance of a full refund had you demanded one when the gig was originally cancelled.  You're now in a position where it's you cancelling.

The difficulty is that the gigs aren't being cancelled - they are automatically rescheduled so you don't have the choice of accepting. And then as freewilly says if you can't make the new date, you lose the initial fees you have paid. 

I've had a similar issue and lost quite a bit on the f ees, but from what I can see online they are entitled to do so (whether moral or not)

I would have thought that rescheduling is still a process of cancellation of an existing contract and the drawing up of a new one?  If the original date couldn't be honoured by the ticket seller, then weren't they in breach of contract?  If so, then at that point OP could have insisted on a full refund, but by implicitly agreeing to the revised contract (i.e. by not objecting at that point), they lost that opportunity.  Although they've received a refund for the face value, the admin charge has been retained because in the latest development, it's the OP breaking the contract and the ticket agency is still willing to provide the ticketing service.

I'm not legally qualified, those are just my thoughts on the process.

This is an unusual situation though.
Lots of promoters have re-booked entire tours, & won't always have offered refunds at the time of the original cancellation, because they knew it was highly likely to get rescheduled.
They haven't asked people if the dates are acceptable, just said 'your tickets are now for date XYZ'

They should offer full refunds, as it's likely that individual cancellations are further in advance than usual & therefore it will be easier for them to resell the tickets.

I wouldn't expect operators to offer refunds because I suspect many of them wouldn't have the cash to honour all of them, but I would have thought that if, at the point of cancellation of the original date, the consumer insisted on a refund for breach of contract, the operator wouldn't really have a leg to stand on.

freewilly1280

Hi all, just to say, I am requesting a refund immediately as they have rescheduled for a further time. This new date is no good for me. It’s not that I accepted then decided I can’t make it, I’ve told them straight away.

williamsl5

freewilly1280 said:

Hi all, just to say, I am requesting a refund immediately as they have rescheduled for a further time. This new date is no good for me. It’s not that I accepted then decided I can’t make it, I’ve told them straight away.

It's worth a try. I did look at the Consumer Laws and unfortunately it does say they are entitled to keep booking fees. It's a pain as like I said, I have lost a fair bit of money on this, not because I don't want to go but because the new dates don't suit.

As edgex said 'They haven't asked people if the dates are acceptable, just said 'your tickets are now for date XYZ'

Let us know how you get on 

williamsl5

Aylesbury_Duck said:

edgex said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

williamsl5 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

I seem to recall other threads about this, and the consensus was that they're entitled to keep the fees, particularly if you agreed to await rescheduling and now cannot make the date yourself.  With hindsight, I think you'd have stood a better chance of a full refund had you demanded one when the gig was originally cancelled.  You're now in a position where it's you cancelling.

The difficulty is that the gigs aren't being cancelled - they are automatically rescheduled so you don't have the choice of accepting. And then as freewilly says if you can't make the new date, you lose the initial fees you have paid. 

I've had a similar issue and lost quite a bit on the f ees, but from what I can see online they are entitled to do so (whether moral or not)

I would have thought that rescheduling is still a process of cancellation of an existing contract and the drawing up of a new one?  If the original date couldn't be honoured by the ticket seller, then weren't they in breach of contract?  If so, then at that point OP could have insisted on a full refund, but by implicitly agreeing to the revised contract (i.e. by not objecting at that point), they lost that opportunity.  Although they've received a refund for the face value, the admin charge has been retained because in the latest development, it's the OP breaking the contract and the ticket agency is still willing to provide the ticketing service.

I'm not legally qualified, those are just my thoughts on the process.

This is an unusual situation though.
Lots of promoters have re-booked entire tours, & won't always have offered refunds at the time of the original cancellation, because they knew it was highly likely to get rescheduled.
They haven't asked people if the dates are acceptable, just said 'your tickets are now for date XYZ'

They should offer full refunds, as it's likely that individual cancellations are further in advance than usual & therefore it will be easier for them to resell the tickets.

I wouldn't expect operators to offer refunds because I suspect many of them wouldn't have the cash to honour all of them, but I would have thought that if, at the point of cancellation of the original date, the consumer insisted on a refund for breach of contract, the operator wouldn't really have a leg to stand on.

I think that's the point - they aren't "cancelling" - they are "re-scheduling" which unfortunately under Consumer Law is different. Not saying I agree - I think your point is completely valid - but seems the law is not on our side on this one.

Be good to see what happens with the OP's request for a refund.....more than happy to be wrong on this one !

Mrs_Ryan

I’ve had this issue with See Tickets, they have refunded me three times for the rescheduled Simple Minds tour. The first one took four months and they kept fobbing me off until I threatened them with the small claims court, then the subsequent two times it was done in a couple of days. It wasn’t pennies either- the three refunds totalled somewhere in the region of about 650 pounds. I’ve lost a fair bit of money on fees as well- I think it was something like £40 alone on the first gig- and they do make it quite hard to request a refund- they do just say this is the new date and keep your tickets. 

We’ve had a nightmare as OH can only do weekends so we have to keep switching venues to wherever the gigs are at weekends. We have gone from Leeds, to Birmingham, to Nottingham (gutted about losing that one as its closest to us) to Liverpool! 

Aylesbury_Duck

Mrs_Ryan said:

I’ve had this issue with See Tickets, they have refunded me three times for the rescheduled Simple Minds tour. The first one took four months and they kept fobbing me off until I threatened them with the small claims court, then the subsequent two times it was done in a couple of days. It wasn’t pennies either- the three refunds totalled somewhere in the region of about 650 pounds. I’ve lost a fair bit of money on fees as well- I think it was something like £40 alone on the first gig- and they do make it quite hard to request a refund- they do just say this is the new date and keep your tickets. 

We’ve had a nightmare as OH can only do weekends so we have to keep switching venues to wherever the gigs are at weekends. We have gone from Leeds, to Birmingham, to Nottingham (gutted about losing that one as its closest to us) to Liverpool! 

There comes a point where you have to question the worth of it.  Back in the early 2000s I attended a few gigs a year, following my favourite few artists.  It wasn't cheap, but I could generally see them at places in London or at places an hour or so's drive away.  I gave up on principle when they moved to larger venues in cities only and the ticket pricing and ridiculous "service fees" made it so expensive, despite having much more disposable income now than I had then.

Losing £40 on fees alone just shows how crazy the pricing has become.  I completely understand supply and demand, and there are clearly plenty of people happy to pay current prices and fees, but I've given up contributing to the greed.