Randomly sent 'on furlough' for a few hours at a time

Ferrety_2

Upsidedownandaround said:

Ferrety_2 said:

Upsidedownandaround said:

Okay so you mean you save more money if he doesn't have to work and stays home on 80%. Unfortunately furlough is a job retention scheme and not there to save on employees transport and childcare costs.

No, I do not mean that. I mean what I wrote: that if we commit childcare costs and fuel for the month/day ahead and he then doesn't work and get paid for the day, he can end up going to work for effectively no pay in his pocket. Or possibly even paying more for childcare/fuel than he earned for that day.

Well he is getting paid.  He will be getting paid for the work done in the morning and he will be getting paid furlough for the period he is told to go home. The fact that it may not be worth his while compared to staying home and getting 80% for doing nothing doesn't mean he is paying to go to work.

You seem to be mixing two things here.

Firstly his employers may not be doing things properly as they haven't asked him to sign a flexible furlough agreement. He can take this up with them as it sounds like they are not doing it right if he has not agreed it.

Secondly if he is flexible furloughed you don't want him having to go in part time as its not worth his while compared to staying home at on 80%. Unfortunately if there is work to be done then his employer is entitled to bring him in to do this work.

You seem to be confused. He does not want to 'stay at home on 80%'  we have paid over £1,000 in childcare in April. If he does not take home at least £1,000 this month, frankly we are in difficulty.

But your insistence that we're trying to get something for nothing is moot really. What I am asking about is whether he has been properly furloughed, to which you and others seem to be saying he has not.

Thrugelmir

Ferrety_2 said:

Upsidedownandaround said:

Ferrety_2 said:

Upsidedownandaround said:

Okay so you mean you save more money if he doesn't have to work and stays home on 80%. Unfortunately furlough is a job retention scheme and not there to save on employees transport and childcare costs.

No, I do not mean that. I mean what I wrote: that if we commit childcare costs and fuel for the month/day ahead and he then doesn't work and get paid for the day, he can end up going to work for effectively no pay in his pocket. Or possibly even paying more for childcare/fuel than he earned for that day.

Well he is getting paid.  He will be getting paid for the work done in the morning and he will be getting paid furlough for the period he is told to go home. The fact that it may not be worth his while compared to staying home and getting 80% for doing nothing doesn't mean he is paying to go to work.

You seem to be mixing two things here.

Firstly his employers may not be doing things properly as they haven't asked him to sign a flexible furlough agreement. He can take this up with them as it sounds like they are not doing it right if he has not agreed it.

Secondly if he is flexible furloughed you don't want him having to go in part time as its not worth his while compared to staying home at on 80%. Unfortunately if there is work to be done then his employer is entitled to bring him in to do this work.

But your insistence that we're trying to get something for nothing is moot really. What I am asking about is whether he has been properly furloughed, to which you and others seem to be saying he has not.

Perhaps a discussion then with his manager to see if there's a better arrangement that works for all parties concerned.  That will enable you to save some money. There's no easy answers. Though looking for alternative employment maybe a good idea. Cover all eventualities. 

Upsidedownandaround

Ferrety_2 said:

Upsidedownandaround said:

Ferrety_2 said:

Upsidedownandaround said:

Okay so you mean you save more money if he doesn't have to work and stays home on 80%. Unfortunately furlough is a job retention scheme and not there to save on employees transport and childcare costs.

No, I do not mean that. I mean what I wrote: that if we commit childcare costs and fuel for the month/day ahead and he then doesn't work and get paid for the day, he can end up going to work for effectively no pay in his pocket. Or possibly even paying more for childcare/fuel than he earned for that day.

Well he is getting paid.  He will be getting paid for the work done in the morning and he will be getting paid furlough for the period he is told to go home. The fact that it may not be worth his while compared to staying home and getting 80% for doing nothing doesn't mean he is paying to go to work.

You seem to be mixing two things here.

Firstly his employers may not be doing things properly as they haven't asked him to sign a flexible furlough agreement. He can take this up with them as it sounds like they are not doing it right if he has not agreed it.

Secondly if he is flexible furloughed you don't want him having to go in part time as its not worth his while compared to staying home at on 80%. Unfortunately if there is work to be done then his employer is entitled to bring him in to do this work.

You seem to be confused. He does not want to 'stay at home on 80%'  we have paid over £1,000 in childcare in April. If he does not take home at least £1,000 this month, frankly we are in difficulty.

But your insistence that we're trying to get something for nothing is moot really. What I am asking about is whether he has been properly furloughed, to which you and others seem to be saying he has not.

Ferrety_2 said:

Upsidedownandaround said:

Ferrety_2 said:

Upsidedownandaround said:

Okay so you mean you save more money if he doesn't have to work and stays home on 80%. Unfortunately furlough is a job retention scheme and not there to save on employees transport and childcare costs.

No, I do not mean that. I mean what I wrote: that if we commit childcare costs and fuel for the month/day ahead and he then doesn't work and get paid for the day, he can end up going to work for effectively no pay in his pocket. Or possibly even paying more for childcare/fuel than he earned for that day.

Well he is getting paid.  He will be getting paid for the work done in the morning and he will be getting paid furlough for the period he is told to go home. The fact that it may not be worth his while compared to staying home and getting 80% for doing nothing doesn't mean he is paying to go to work.

You seem to be mixing two things here.

Firstly his employers may not be doing things properly as they haven't asked him to sign a flexible furlough agreement. He can take this up with them as it sounds like they are not doing it right if he has not agreed it.

Secondly if he is flexible furloughed you don't want him having to go in part time as its not worth his while compared to staying home at on 80%. Unfortunately if there is work to be done then his employer is entitled to bring him in to do this work.

You seem to be confused. He does not want to 'stay at home on 80%'  we have paid over £1,000 in childcare in April. If he does not take home at least £1,000 this month, frankly we are in difficulty.

But your insistence that we're trying to get something for nothing is moot really. What I am asking about is whether he has been properly furloughed, to which you and others seem to be saying he has not.

I didn't say he wanted to stay at home. But you seem to want an alternative to flexible furlough.

Excluding the issue of them not having done the process properly part time furlough is something which a lot of employers will be using to allow them to cope with getting employees back in work to deal with the current workload whilst also allowing them to keep the whole work force. The alternative is make half the work force redundant and have the other half work full time.

sheramber

I think what peolpe are getting  at is If he knew he was working mornings only  and furloughed in the afternoon could you cut back on your childcare  or would you lose your  place?

If not, then whether he  signed  an agreement or not is irrelevant. His employer could ask hime to sign an agreement now.



If his wage goes on childcare then when he was furloughed were you able to stop and childcare, as he was at home, and save that money?

 

Ferrety_2

sheramber said:

I think what peolpe are getting  at is If he knew he was working mornings only  and furloughed in the afternoon could you cut back on your childcare  or would you lose your  place?

If not, then whether he  signed  an agreement or not is irrelevant. His employer could ask hime to sign an agreement now.



If his wage goes on childcare then when he was furloughed were you able to stop and childcare, as he was at home, and save that money?

 

I was still on mat leave at that time so not using childcare, so no, we didn't save then either.

I don't think I'm going to find a solution here, sadly. Frankly, being made redundant would probably be a viable solution right now, but that isn't on offer. Just keeping on having to pay out for childcare that then is used but not needed when sent home.

sheramber

But , if you knew in advance that  he was being  furloughed could you save on childcare/

My son had to book and pay for a term in  advance for childcare , so  even if he didn't need it he still had to  pay unless it was a permanent change. 

His unused session would be given to someone else and he would not necessarily be able to  get it back.

Ferrety_2

sheramber said:

But , if you knew in advance that  he was being  furloughed could you save on childcare/

My son had to book and pay for a term in  advance for childcare , so  even if he didn't need it he still had to  pay unless it was a permanent change. 

His unused session would be given to someone else and he would not necessarily be able to  get it back.

Yes, that's another issue really. We pay a month in advance, so once that £1,000 has gone on childcare, if he then doesn't earn £1,000 or more we're losing money.

And secondly, there's always a danger of losing our place if we take them out of childcare. It's in a rural area, so there is only one provider available to us.

But the problem is there's no advance warning or agreement - he just goes into work and whenever there's not much work people are just sent home for the afternoon and told on the spot they're furloughed for those four hours of the afternoon.

I just can't find a solution - he has tried to discuss it, said he doesn't agree to being furloughed for a period of time when we've already paid for childcare but it's just not up for discussion. 

He has offered a solution to the lack of work by asking to drop to 3 days a week with a flexible working request but that hasn't been agreed yet. He doesn't disagree to being furloughed if that's what they need to do, but it's the lack of notice that's killing us financially because of our massive childcare bill paid in advance.

wannabe_a_saver

The flexible working request seems like the thing to focus on.  Does the employer’s policy give a timeline for how long they have to make the decision?

silvercar

So for the day in question, the minimum he would take home would be full pay for the morning and 80% pay for the afternoon. So averaging out he would receive 90% of that days pay. Given that 100% of pay must have given him money left over after childcare, I would hope that 90% of pay would also give him something over. If losing 10% of a days pay really means he is working for nothing, then it’s time to re-evaluate whether the saving on travel costs, work clothes and other incidentals means it is viable to work.

Ferrety_2

silvercar said:

So for the day in question, the minimum he would take home would be full pay for the morning and 80% pay for the afternoon. So averaging out he would receive 90% of that days pay. Given that 100% of pay must have given him money left over after childcare, I would hope that 90% of pay would also give him something over. If losing 10% of a days pay really means he is working for nothing, then it’s time to re-evaluate whether the saving on travel costs, work clothes and other incidentals means it is viable to work.

Indeed. Hence the flexible working request to drop to 3 days a week, bringing in the same money after childcare/fuel costs.

He used to make a bonus, but that's dried up with the work. So yes, take-home each day is now about 10-20% of his wage after childcare etc. It's fairly grim. Which is why I asked for advice on avoiding the erratic surprise furloughs.

It's the situation most parents find themselves in if you have 2 preschoolers and a low-ish wage - find a way to maintain a job/career for a few years until they're both in school and you can increase your hours again at the job you've clung onto... or go single salary for a few years and hope you can pick up where you left off.

It's not uncommon - but that doesn't make any of the choices much easier.