Randomly sent 'on furlough' for a few hours at a time

Ferrety_2

My partner keeps going into work, only for the boss to go round telling people to go home for the afternoon 'on furlough' halfway through the day. Surely this isn't allowed?

It's only been happening for the last week, so we won't know until the end of the month how this is going to appear on wage slips.

It's a massive worry because we pay for childcare for 2 children at the start of the month and only about 20% of his pay is left after that anyway. So every time this happens, he is paying to go to work.

He was on 'proper' furlough for a few months last year and a few weeks earlier this year. I think they were made to sign something when that started last March, but there's been no sort of written agreement since then for this current 'arrangement' of sending people home with no notice at all.

I just don't know what to do next. He has a flexible working request in progress at the moment to drop to 3 days a week as childcare costs makes working full time so futile, so he doesn't want to make waves. But we just can't afford to keep paying out fuel and childcare for him to not get his full wage.

Upsidedownandaround

Has he agreed to be placed on flexible furlough?

If he has I dont think there is anything that woud prevent an employer doing this. You don't say what your partner does but on the face of it there is nothing wrong with bringing in staff to do work available then putting them back on furlough when the work is complete. That is the purpose of flexible furlough to allow people to work part time to do work if and when it's required.

Ideally you would want a clearer arrangement for staff so it was clear they would be working part time in the morning and furloughed in the afternoon rather than just sending people home without any notice but maybe they are tying to get to grips with workloads since it's the first week of it happening then they will work out more definite part time hours.

I don't understand how he is paying to go to work. If he works the morning he should be paid full pay for this and then if furloughed for the afternoon he should get 80% for that.

macman

He signed 'something last month'. What did he sign? Hopefully not a contract reducing him to zero hours?

Ferrety_2

macman said:

He signed 'something last month'. What did he sign? Hopefully not a contract reducing him to zero hours?

Sorry, I meant last YEAR, not month - last March when he was originally furloughed. It was something everyone was made to sign before being sent on furlough but he doesn't remember exact wording.

Ferrety_2

Upsidedownandaround said:

Has he agreed to be placed on flexible furlough?

No, he has not. He got no choice over being sent home 'on furlough' for an afternoon. He has no flexible furlough agreement in place, only whatever was signed by all employees last March.

I don't understand how he is paying to go to work. If he works the morning he should be paid full pay for this and then if furloughed for the afternoon he should get 80% for that.

Because our childcare bill is almost his entire wage already. Any small dent, even 20% x 4 hours, has an impact on his take-home. Especially when we've paid £10 fuel and £60 childcare for him to be able to do that day's work.

unholyangel

Upsidedownandaround said:

Has he agreed to be placed on flexible furlough?

If he has I dont think there is anything that woud prevent an employer doing this. You don't say what your partner does but on the face of it there is nothing wrong with bringing in staff to do work available then putting them back on furlough when the work is complete. That is the purpose of flexible furlough to allow people to work part time to do work if and when it's required.

Ideally you would want a clearer arrangement for staff so it was clear they would be working part time in the morning and furloughed in the afternoon rather than just sending people home without any notice but maybe they are tying to get to grips with workloads since it's the first week of it happening then they will work out more definite part time hours.

I don't understand how he is paying to go to work. If he works the morning he should be paid full pay for this and then if furloughed for the afternoon he should get 80% for that.

Because they're only getting 80% for the afternoon but don't get to pay the nursery 80%.

I'd be (very) surprised if a furlough agreement made in march last year would allow for flexible furlough though. Or cover the scenario where you can be sent home for an afternoon.

OPs husband should have been given a copy of that furlough agreement though, since that's one of the rules to be eligible to claim cjrs. OP said husband doesn't remember exact wording. This could mean they were given it on writing but have lost it. Or it could mean that the employer hasn't complied with the provisions to be eligible and have been wrongly claiming.

Upsidedownandaround

Ferrety_2 said:

Upsidedownandaround said:

Has he agreed to be placed on flexible furlough?

No, he has not. He got no choice over being sent home 'on furlough' for an afternoon. He has no flexible furlough agreement in place, only whatever was signed by all employees last March.

I don't understand how he is paying to go to work. If he works the morning he should be paid full pay for this and then if furloughed for the afternoon he should get 80% for that.

Because our childcare bill is almost his entire wage already. Any small dent, even 20% x 4 hours, has an impact on his take-home. Especially when we've paid £10 fuel and £60 childcare for him to be able to do that day's work.

There should be a new agreement in place for flexible furlough. He would have to bring this up with his employer however what they may do is simply ask him to agree to flexible furlough at that time and if he didn't then they may not keep him on furlough if there is work to be done.

Okay so you mean you save more money if he doesn't have to work and stays home on 80%. Unfortunately furlough is a job retention scheme and not there to save on employees transport and childcare costs.

Thrugelmir

Ferrety_2 said:

My partner keeps going into work, only for the boss to go round telling people to go home for the afternoon 'on furlough' halfway through the day. Surely this isn't allowed?

Sounds as if the business is currently treading water. Attempting to retain all employees in the hope that the volume of work picks up in the near future. As the next step will be to stream line the workforce if there's insufficient business to enable the organisation to stand on it's own feet financially. Furlough was a job retention scheme created to avoid organisations making knee jerk redundancies.  The long lasting effects of the pandemic are yet to be felt. 

Ferrety_2

Upsidedownandaround said:

Okay so you mean you save more money if he doesn't have to work and stays home on 80%. Unfortunately furlough is a job retention scheme and not there to save on employees transport and childcare costs.

No, I do not mean that. I mean what I wrote: that if we commit childcare costs and fuel for the month/day ahead and he then doesn't work and get paid for the day, he can end up going to work for effectively no pay in his pocket. Or possibly even paying more for childcare/fuel than he earned for that day.

Ferrety_2

I'd be (very) surprised if a furlough agreement made in march last year would allow for flexible furlough though. Or cover the scenario where you can be sent home for an afternoon.

OPs husband should have been given a copy of that furlough agreement though, since that's one of the rules to be eligible to claim cjrs. OP said husband doesn't remember exact wording. This could mean they were given it on writing but have lost it. Or it could mean that the employer hasn't complied with the provisions to be eligible and have been wrongly claiming.

He has not been given a copy of anything, but an email was circulated last work outlining that workers were being placed on furlough and the terms. From what I've read, given the rush to get the scheme up and running, that was sufficient then.

But I just don't see how it can extend to a new furlough agreement.

Also, it just feels like the immediate manager is using this as a way to save a few quid whenever it's quiet, rather than any strategic objective to keep the business afloat.

I despair. I don't know what he can actually do about it in practice. He is already looking for alternative work as childcare costs swallow his wage anyway, but that's obviously a pretty limited option right now...

Upsidedownandaround

Ferrety_2 said:

Upsidedownandaround said:

Okay so you mean you save more money if he doesn't have to work and stays home on 80%. Unfortunately furlough is a job retention scheme and not there to save on employees transport and childcare costs.

No, I do not mean that. I mean what I wrote: that if we commit childcare costs and fuel for the month/day ahead and he then doesn't work and get paid for the day, he can end up going to work for effectively no pay in his pocket. Or possibly even paying more for childcare/fuel than he earned for that day.

Well he is getting paid.  He will be getting paid for the work done in the morning and he will be getting paid furlough for the period he is told to go home. The fact that it may not be worth his while compared to staying home and getting 80% for doing nothing doesn't mean he is paying to go to work.

You seem to be mixing two things here.

Firstly his employers may not be doing things properly as they haven't asked him to sign a flexible furlough agreement. He can take this up with them as it sounds like they are not doing it right if he has not agreed it.

Secondly if he is flexible furloughed you don't want him having to go in part time as its not worth his while compared to staying home at on 80%. Unfortunately if there is work to be done then his employer is entitled to bring him in to do this work.