TPS and BW Legal ANPR

DTDutch

Hello again.

I have an old thread here regarding CEL. However this time, with BW Legal & TPS, its not yet at the stage or courts and a CCJ.

I received a letter from BW Legal stating that they are collecting a debt on behalf of TPS for PCNs in 2017 with a paying in slip and details on how to make the payment.

I called BW Legal and stated that they have not added any information re what this parking charge is about or any evidence submitted a SAR request which I have now received.

The SAR is dated 15 March 2021 and only contains copies of 3 notices TPS allegedly sent to my previous address in 2017 for each alleged contravention. 

On each notice are pictures taken by ANPR cameras showing my car entering and exiting a retail car park at certain times.  It is impossible to tell in the pictures who the driver was at the time the pictures were taken and there is no evidence that the car was in fact parked at the retail car park for hours. The car is seen entering and exiting the retail car park, which were likely to have been be drop offs and pick ups.. 3 years ago meaning that my car was never parked there for the entirely duration.

There are 8 contraventions in total in the SAR.  Each with a current outstanding balance of £90.

I have also received a "Letter of Claim" dated 19 April 


This letter has 3 different PCN reference numbers which are not included in the SAR. 

The letter of claim includes a warning of court proceedings if I do not complete and return an attached reply form within 30 days.

The reply form has 4 sections with boxes A to I, where I can tick

In Section 1 to state whether: 
Box A: I agree I owe the debt
Box B: I owe some of the debt, but not all of it
Box C:  I don't know whether I owe the debt
Box I dispute the debt.

I will be ticking Box I dispute the debt.

- Is that correct or shall I tick Box C: I do not know that I owe the debt?

Section 2 is "How  will you pay?" which I only need to complete of I ticked Box A or Box B on section 1.


Section 3, which  I'm not entirely sure what to do with states:

Box G: I am getting or intend to get debt advice
- I am getting advice from....
-I'm getting the advice about...
- I have an appointment with an adviser on....
- I can't obtain advice within 30 days of returning this Reply Form because...

Do I need to complete these questions other than ticking that I am getting debt advice and to state, from MSE with no set appointment date? Is this their business at all? 

Section 4 is: What documents are you sending with the form? What information do you need?
Box H:  I have provided documents and
Box I: I need more documents or  information.
and states the following examples:
- A copy of the written contract  for the debt
- A full statement of account
- A calculation of interest claimed
- The annual or daily rate of interest
- A description of the nature and amount of any administrative charges included in the debt
- A copy of the notice of assignment of the debt.


I think I should ask for all of these for all 11 alleged contraventions. Especially since the 3 PCN reference numbers on this Letter of Claim aren't included in the SAR and they allegedly occurred after the 8 contraventions in the SAR but I have not yet received a Letter of Claim for the 8.

Although they are only at this point in the letter of claim referring to 3 PCN's,
could I add the other 8 to the form and deal with them all at the same time?

I have another forum which was regarding CEL and setttinf aside a judgement and then a defence for court.

I am not sure if I at this point I can use the letter I used for CEL?

The arguments are the same re the ANPR cameras, no evidence of signage, POFA wording and holding the registered keeper liable and no evidence of who the driver was.
And that regards to my address with the  DVLA not updated in time that I correct that as soon as I became aware of my error and that it is in any event a case for the DVLA to pursue and not theirs.

I also wonder why they have left it 3 years before pursuing this?!

I would like to dispute all 11 PCN's with them quickly before they initiate court proceedings. So your brilliant advice and help will be much appreciated as it was last time.


Many thanks

Coupon-mad

We don't want to know about the forms that came with the LBC.  The NEWBIES thread fully covers LBC stage and clearly tells you NOT to complete the forms!

Just follow what the NEWBIES thread says and also ask BW Legal by email, why the PCNs on the LBC do not match the SAR supplied by their client and TPS only supplied 3 letters sent to an old address and none of them seem to tally with the PCNs on this LBC.  Also ask whether their client is relying upon the POFA for these PCNs or not, given that they were using a wrong address (DVLA data is known to be unreliable) so cannot have served NTKs, even if the wording was POFA compliant (which in 2017, TPS didn't bother).

Stop ringing them - Jeez no!!

Redx

Do not fill in the financial forms , definitely not , follow the coupon mad advice above

Follow the advice in the second post of the newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum

Telling b w legal that you dispute any alleged debt and to place the matter on hold for 30 days to seek debt management advice

Email the DPO at TPS to obtain all your data regarding all the missing documents , NTK PCN letters , all pictures , everything , especially if it's in regard to the PCN reference numbers etc you want everything !!

The claimant TPS have 6 years to issue a court claim , 3 years is nothing , we are currently seeing cases at just under 6 years , from 2015 !!

The pandemic gas hit all these companies finances so they are trawling through old invoices , it's that simple

DTDutch

Thank you very much ones again Coupon Mad and RedX. 

I have just sent both emails.  1 to TPS' DPO and the other to the email address on BW Legal's Letter of Claim.

D_P_Dance

I called BW Legal and

Never ever conduct these matters by telephone.  maters such as this are very likely to end up in court where a paper trail will be essential.

Have you complained t0 your MP?

DTDutch

Hi,  the only people I spoke to were BW legal and that was after their first letter stating I owed £990 without stating what for. So I called to find out..


TPS just responded to my email with a table in the body of the email containing 14 PCN numbers, the date and time, the VRN and the location. The table is accompanied with the following nonsense in the body of the email:

**************

Thank you for submitting a Data Subject Access Request on (28 April 2021 11:40) and for providing evidence of your identity. Total Parking Solutions Ltd can confirm that we are processing data concerning yourself based on the information you have provided, and are happy to provide for you a copy of that data.

 

Please find attached case history files, constituting a copy of data concerning you that we are currently processing in respect to a number of outstanding parking charges with reference listed below, against vehicle with number plate (xxxx), for incidents dated listed below at (Retail Park xxx).

 We hope that this record will satisfy your request to access a copy of your data. Other information regarding our processing operations such as the purposes and lawful basis of processing, the source of your data, third-parties involved with whom we may share the data with, retention period and more can all be found in our Privacy Notice at privacy.totalparking.co.uk or can be heard by calling 01536 428 546.

 

If we can be of any further assistance, or you require further clarifications, please do not hesitate to contact us.

 

If you feel unsatisfied with our response, you have the right to make a complaint to the ICO or another supervisory authority. Or seek to enforce this right through a judicial remedy

 

Yours sincerely

*************

That is ALL TPS provided following my SAR. SO Lazy and I stated exactly everything I wanted from them from the responses above and the Newbies thread.

BW Legal have not replied yet.

Could you please advice what to do next? Do I complain to the ICO or go back to TPS??

Thank you

Umkomaas

Thank you for submitting a Data Subject Access Request on (28 April 2021 11:40) and for providing evidence of your identity. Total Parking Solutions Ltd can confirm that we are processing data concerning yourself based on the information you have provided, and are happy to provide for you a copy of that data.

But that's only a few hours ago.  They have 30 days to provide all the information they have about you. Maybe what you've had is just the first instalment?  Unless they tell you they have nothing else (and you believe they do), you'll need to let this run the full course of their legal allowance of 30 days in which to respond. 

Coupon-mad

Don't forget TPS didn't use the POFA in their PCNs and so are unlikely to be able to hold the keeper liable.  Check the wording of the postal PCNs when they are shown (if they are!)/

DTDutch

Hi,
 Regarding TPS:
Yes TPS' response was quick but in response to Imkomaas statement above that TPS have 30 days to provide all the info ive requested,  this part of their response: 

"If you feel unsatisfied with our response, you have the right to make a complaint to the ICO or another supervisory authority. Or seek to enforce this right through a judicial remedy"

does not indicate that they have any intention of providing anything other than the list of PCN reference numbers they emailed to me following my SAR request.

Ive also not heard from them so far.

So do I complain to the ICO or go back to TPS and say that their repsonse doesnt comply?

Thank you

Umkomaas

They should have, as a minimum, copies of the original NtK they sent for each charge, copies of any reminder letters, copies of the data they received containing your name, address and VRM from the DVLA, correspondence they have exchanged with any debt collector(s) containing your personal data, correspondence they have exchanged with any solicitor(s) containing your personal data.  I'd do a bullet point list of each of the above and tell them what you require of them. If they refuse (or state they no longer have), then you involve the ICO. 

Something in the back of my mind reminds me that didn't TPS lose, destroy or remove lots of old case files?  It may be the situation here, given that your PCNs date back around three and a half years. Test Tito out with that bulleted list of requirements. 

DTDutch

Hi,

As stated above and on the Newbies thread, I
- did not complete and return the reply form which came with the LBC
- sumbitted and have now received the SAR.

With regards to complaining to the landowner / retailer, I parked at a small retail centre with several shops so I wouldnt know which of the retailers to complain to and there are 12  PCN's altogether

The 30 days they put the 1st file on hold for has now lapsed and the hold on the 2nd file will lapse on 17 June. 

Now, I have read the Newbies thread but im just unclear on what to do at this stage now I that have the SAR the hold on one of the files has lapsed.. 

1 - Am I at this point waiting for BW Legal to sumbit a court claim?

2- Will that be the point where I complete my defense?

3 - When do I register with the MCOL to acknowledge service?