Another "how long will probate take" aka when can I put the house on the market?

EnsFinch

My last surviving parent died in February. I was an only child, and apart from a few small gifts to charity, I am the only beneficiary of the estate and the only executor.   There's no inheritance tax to pay because of the residence nil rate bands from both my parents, but the overall value of the estate wasn't far short of £1million (a nice house, but very little else)

I sent the IHT forms off in March, and the probate application a few days later (a compromise between one form which said "allow at least 15 days" and the other which said "send them at the same time").

I've just had a letter from HMRC saying they've emailed form IHT421 to the probate office, but they might still have questions for me until July.  Does that mean that they agree that there's no tax to pay  - assuming I've got the forms right which they are still checking?

The real question is does that mean I should get probate fairly soon?  When I hear these nightmare stories about probate taking 6-12 months, is most of that the IHT part?  I want to put the house on the market this spring but I understand (from this forum!) that although I could exchange, I can't complete a sale without probate - so basically is it safe to start that process now, knowing that house sales also typically take 3 months to complete?

Thanks for any knowledge/experience you have

[Deleted User]

I'd have already put the house on the market by now.  

Get it marketed.

Mickey666

I'm not entirely sure about this but I don't see why the house cannot be sold before probate.

The OP is the sole executor and the sole beneficiary, so there is not going to be any dispute over the sale of the house.  HMRC is not going to be interested in whether the estate contains the house, only in it's value - and what better way of confirming its value than selling it?!

The 'worst case' is that the estate/executor sells the house before probate . . . but so what?  The beneficiary definitely won't care as the estate now has a pile of cash instead of a house - which is their desired outcome - and I don't see why would HMRC care because it won't affect anything due to them.  Indeed, the value of the estate will then be crystal clear, rather than having an estimated house value.

So, unless there is a specific law that prevents an executor selling a property before probate, especially when the only beneficiary agrees, I can't see the problem.

I'd get the house on the market right away.  Besides, the sale will require a conveyancing solicitor and they should be able to give definitive advice about any sale/probate complications.

poppystar

Is the house in the sole name of the last surviving parent? If the first parent to die had left you half in trust then probate is not necessary.

I didn’t need probate for the house but did for other things and put the house on the market at the same time I sent the probate application off. It took a while to get probate because of a complication but if I had needed it it would have appeared in time since the sale process and the chain meant that it took seven months to sell anyway. Get it on the market! 

FatherTireseus

When my mum died, I waited until I'd got probate before I put her house on the market.  (This was a few years ago pre-covid mind, and probate didn't take that long to come through).  I'm pretty sure the estate agent at the time said I needn't have waited and they could have marketed it on the basis that it was waiting for probate.

The solicitors did want to see the grant of probate which I had to take into their office.

The only risk I could think of is that a cash buyer turns up and wants to complete asap to take advantage of the stamp duty holiday which ends in June, and you risk losing a quick sale if they can't complete before probate is granted.  But with all the various searches that need to be made and delays in obtaining those, chances are even if it went on the market today, you wouldn't be in a position to complete before the end of June.  I think it's a minimal risk.

I haven't had to apply for probate recently, but from what I read in the press, delays generally are pretty common, and this pre-dates covid.  Back in 2019, the service was centralised, resulting in the closure of a number of sub-registries at the same time that a proposal to increase probate fees led to a surge in applications.  Then coronavirus meant staff were working from home, which led to more delays. Scanning of documents is contracted out and issues can occur e.g. if one page of the document is missed.  Of course HMRC could still have questions, but there are lots of other reasons why delays can occur.

xylophone

The OP does not state that the property was registered in any other names than  those of her late parents.

If this is the case, then she will not be able to complete a sale until she has probate.

Once she has probate, then  she can proceed - the fact that HMRC may have additional questions does not prevent this.

EnsFinch

Thanks for all the comments.  The house was transferred into the sole name of my father, the parent who has just died, after my mother died a few years ago.  There is no mortgage.

To be honest, my initial thoughts were those of Mickey666 but the internet (which obviously knows everything) says you can't complete a sale without probate.

Anyway the unanimous advice seems to be to get on with it, so I guess I will.

thegreenone

My late Mum's solicitor advised me that HMRC had 15 working days to make comment/act on the submission/approve, once this time was up the solicitor could apply for Grant of Probate.   

HMRC were behind by a week and the Grant was applied for on 6 April this year.   They said that it is currently taking 6-8 weeks for the Grant if everything is straight forward so I'm going to wait another few weeks before I put the property on the market.  

Mickey666 - I think the issue is that the house has to be in your name to be able to sell unless you have a Grant of Probate, which gives you legal permission to sell someone else's house.  

Mickey666

It's a little confusing. 

Probate is often described as the process by which the executor is granted legal permission to deal with the deceased's estate, which sounds fair enough and would suggest it IS needed before a property (or anything else) belonging to the estate can be sold.

Conversely, for some estates Probate isn't needed at all.  According to the government website: https://www.gov.uk/applying-for-probate

"You may not need probate if the person who died:

• had jointly owned land, property, shares or money - these will automatically pass to the surviving owners
• only had savings or premium bonds

Contact each asset holder (for example a bank or mortgage company) to find out if you’ll need probate to get access to their assets. Every organisation has its own rules."

So it looks like probate will be needed for completion of any sale in this case, but I agree it would be best to proceed with marketing the house in the meantime.  

Stodd101

My brother and I lost mum at Christmas, instructed solicitor for probate mid January, ours was granted 11th April.

xylophone

The house was transferred into the sole name of my father, the parent who has just died, after my mother died a few years ago.

Then you cannot complete on a sale until you have probate.