G24 3 parking fine letters/Now 3 Trace

KeithP

KMurrell said:

The registered keeper is always also the owner surely... 

That is simply untrue.

The Registered Keeper is (effectively) the person registered with the DVLA as a contact name should the need arise.

KMurrell said:

...only the insured could be driving.

Again you are mistaken.

My insurance allows me to drive vehicles not belonging to me, with the owner's permission of course - as does the insurance of many thousands of motorists.


Until G24 found out who was driving they had a much more difficult task.

Coupon-mad

Scenario 1:

Owner: me (I bought my daughter's car and I own it)

Registered keeper: my daughter at her address (or she could have registered it at the same address as me).  It's really common in families that the owner isn't the keeper and the same happens where husbands and wives share more than one car and use each other's vehicles sometimes, for whatever reason.

Drivers:  Could be me, my daughter or her boyfriend, all of whom are insured on that car. Or it could even be any friend/family member with 3rd party cover.



Scenario 2:

Owner: Lease company

Registered keeper: employer company

Drivers: any employee, or indeed their spouses if the terms of employment allow the vehicle to be used as a family car and insured accordingly.


In addition, in the second scenario, the 'keeper' (person who normally keeps the car at home) is not the registered keeper (employer company).

The point we are making is that a PPC doesn't know who the driver was - ever - unless someone appeals and blabs about it.  And if a registered keeper has received a late PCN in the post, it is frustrating for us to hear that they have already appealed as driver (arrrrghhh!).  The last thing you do with this rogue industry is appeal without researching it first.

KMurrell

What do you mean by a late PCN? I read on citizens advise website that these company's should advise within 14 days of parking of a fine? One of these was for Sept 20 and letter received 30 Nov, so surely this isn't right? 

Coupon-mad

These are not fines and they don't have to send the NTK within 14 days, but if they don't then they can't hold the registered keeper liable.  Unless someone appeals and blows it by saying who was driving, in which case the keeper's 100% lack of liability is in the bin.

Again, this is all explained in the NEWBIES thread.

The CAB are utterly clueless about private parking law and how to appeal, defend and win.  Completely useless advice.  We've even heard CAB advisers have told people to pay, or misadvised them when they get a court claim, telling them they have no chance, when in fact we win 99% of the time here.

KeithP

@Coupon-mad has already mentioned it but you may not have noticed...

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Umkomaas

I rang G24 and appealed all 3 sending photos of sign stating maximum stay 3 hours (he was well under this) and photo of the gate whic is never closed when store was shut. My agreement apart from the misleading sign was why take 2 and a half months to send a fine (Sept one) and then send all 3 out together. I never heard anything to my appeal until I got 3 Trace Debt letters now each asking for £150. 

If your son is the registered keeper and he was driving, why did you appeal the PCNs?

Hi, back on 30 Nov I received 3 G24 letters for evening parking for my sons car in a store car park, the 3 fines related to a date in Sept, Oct and Nov.

When the store is closed anyone parking there is easy meat for PPCs. Did your son meet up with a number of other boy drivers at the time?  It's an occurrence that many retailers are trying to stamp out, and if it is the case, with 3 x £150 hanging over his head, I guess they will have succeeded in your son's case. 

That's not to say he should pay the charges, he just needs to follow advice from the forum - @Coupon-mad has advised two actions to take already. 

If you have no legal interest in the vehicle and were not the driver, you cannot deal with this 'on behalf of'. You can do the work on it, but everything must be in your son's name. In fact, if you made the initial appeals in your own name, PoFA protection may still be available to your son, messy, and it won't be easy unless your son fully understands the Act and be able to articulate it in front of a Judge. You naming him as the driver has no consequence, it doesn't prove he was the driver (no more than if I said he was), but a Judge might quickly cut to the chase and ask him direct. 

But, that's all speculation - let's see how far G24 push it. 

KMurrell

No it's not my real name on here.

My son is just 18 hence I'm trying to sort out for him but appreciate its him who would be taken to court if this happens.

I appealed because I don't think the 3 fines are fair the sign is misleading and they took so long to advise us and having read on here that you should appeal, obviously didn't read it properly as you meant appeal to popla and of course I'm too late for that now. Found the newbies info quite confusing.

I've written to my MP, I will also try the planning portal as suggested and may even talk to store manager but guess he won't be interested.

I appreciate all your help thank you. 

fisherjim

KMurrell said:

They already knew who was driving as the letters were addressed to my son the driver and car owner as they had this info from his car reg. 

They didn't know the driver how could they it could even have been me.

They don't know the "owner" they only know the keeper, your imagination is running away with you, you are not following the advice on here and if you carry on you will fail.

In answer to your questions about why he got the ticket when he was under three hours the sign confirms it quite clearly "The car park is for exclusive use of customers whilst shopping on site" if as you have intimated this was after hours he could not have been shopping hence the charge. The three hour defence is closed look for others.

D_P_Dance

As FJ says, this is a complicated process with clearly defined processes, you need to keep within the lines. 

Umkomaas

obviously didn't read it properly as you meant appeal to popla and of course I'm too late for that now. 

POPLA was never open for this. POPLA is for BPA AOS members, IPC AOS members (of which G24 is one) only offer the maligned IAS.